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#1 2009-07-13 17:20:40

canudigit
Member
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 71

Colaborative Music Theory

Hello chordie members! 

I am an expert guitar player with a ton of experience and would like to help the chordie community out. 

Please reply to this thread so I can see there is enough interest on this topic and if there is, I will start posting some SIMPLE EASY TO FOLLOW guitar theory lessons.

Also if you are interested, please pass the word around to get everyone you know on board.

I will check back soon!

Thanks

canudigit

Edit:  Attempt to change thread title on request of OP.

Last edited by canudigit (2009-07-13 17:23:23)

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#2 2009-07-13 18:09:25

geoaguiar
Honoured Member
Registered: 2007-03-24
Posts: 1108

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

interested


I used to be disgusted; now I try to be amused.
Elvis Costello

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#3 2009-07-13 19:19:18

canudigit
Member
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 71

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

I guess I should have not posted to offer help since I will end up with rediculous comments like the previous one by SouthPaw41L the moderator. 

I did say EASY MUSIC THEORY, not quantum physics.   Theory can easily get very complicated but doesn't have to be.

I will keep checking back to hopefully see some REAL interest instead of wisecracks.

P.S. The reason I thought you was busting on me is the kind of question you asked has very little to do with playing guitar chords.

Last edited by canudigit (2009-07-14 12:41:56)

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#4 2009-07-13 20:26:22

selso
Senior Member
From: Amarillo, TX
Registered: 2007-07-18
Posts: 970
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

canudigit wrote:

I guess I should have not posted to offer help since I will end up with rediculous comments like the previous one by SouthPaw41L the moderator. 

I did say EASY MUSIC THEORY, not quantum physics.   Theory can easily get very complicated but doesn't have to be.

I will keep checking back to hopefully see some REAL interest instead of wisecracks.

I think he was just messing with you. I wouldn't take offense. Some easy to follow theory lessons would be great.


Everything is bad including me
But being bad is good policy
Reverend Horton Heat

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#5 2009-07-13 20:46:39

canudigit
Member
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 71

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

I understand, but I take teaching music SERIOUSLY and not as a joke, especially on the first impression sad.

Here is the first lesson that I have to offer.  This is a very basic lesson and supports just about any other music theory topic.


Lesson 1

The 12 tones in music

In western culture music, there is a total of 12 tones also known as the chromatic scale.  A musician uses these same 12 tones to create chords, scales and ultimately music just like a painter uses the colors of his or her pallete to paint.

Once you have a solid understanding of all 12 tones in music, you will have the tools to learn to create chords, scales and ultimately FREE your mind so you can concentrate on playing.

The first seven letters of the alphabet (A B C D E F and G) are called natural tones because they do not have any sharp (#) or flats (b). 

That takes care of seven of the 12 tones.  The other five notes are the sharp and flat notes which will be explained in the next lesson.

NOTE:  Music theory can be very complicated.  Here is an example.

A Bmin7 is the second chord in the key of A, the third chord in the key of G and also the relative minor chord in the key of D and the Bmin7 is diatonic to each of those keys WHEW!! 

The best thing to do is learn what you find usefull and put all the complicated stuff on the backburner.

LESSON SUMMARY:

There is a total of 12 tones in music.
The first seven letters of the alphabet are A B C D E F and G also called natural notes.
The other five notes are the sharps and flats. 

I truly hope this helps clear some music theory confusion.

Keep Jammin

Steve

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#6 2009-07-14 03:08:42

JLlamas
Junior Member
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 1

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

I suppose that I would be interested

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#7 2009-07-14 11:46:40

henryb
Senior Member
From: Lhanbryde
Registered: 2006-03-04
Posts: 204

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

SouthPaw41L wrote:

Canudigit,

This wasn't a wisecrack at all Steve, it was a genuine, sincere question.  And the fact that you find a legitimate question "rediculous", well I find quite humorous.  It was not my intent to offended you. I just wanted to get a feeling of where you're at and what you're all about. Thanks for clearing' that up for me....

Peace and Guitars,
SouthPaw41L

You could have fooled me.  ps. spelling correction ....RIDICULOUS.....OK.

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#8 2009-07-14 12:34:41

canudigit
Member
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 71

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

It's all good smile.  The only thing that I am looking to do is help some people with basic music theory. 

Once you understand the basics, you will then be able to construct melodies, chords, scales and FREE yourself to concentrate on performing.  This may seem very basic, but I like to teach from the ground up so there are no HOLES in learning this stuff.

Lesson 2

In lesson one you learned about the five natural notes which were A B D C E F and G.  Now it is time to learn about the sharp and flats.

A sharp symbol (#) placed after a natural note means to play the very next note higher.

A flat symbol (b) placed after a natural note means to play the very next note lower.

BASIC RULE:

B up to the very next note is C and not B#.
C down to the very next note is B and not Cb.

E up to the very next note is F and not E#.
C down to the very next note is B and not Cb.

This basic rule will be broken when learning about the 12 keys in music, but for now remember the basic rule.

Here are a few examples of sharps and flats.

C up to the very next note is C#.
D up the very next note is D#.
E down to the very next note is Eb.
A down to the very next note is Ab.

B up to the very next note is B# NOT.. Just checking to see if you are paying attention smile

That's all for this lesson

Keep Jammin

Steve

Last edited by canudigit (2009-07-14 12:36:39)

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#9 2009-07-14 14:31:22

jerome.oneil
Moderator
From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2006-06-15
Posts: 3072
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

I got a chuckle out of it.  big_smile

So, if I'm playing something in the key of C sharp major, what is the next note up from B?


Someday we'll win this thing...

www.aclosesecond.com

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#10 2009-07-14 14:47:16

canudigit
Member
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 71

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

QUESTION:

So, if I'm playing something in the key of C sharp major, what is the next note up from B?

ANSWER:

Since the key of C# major has all sharps (C#,D#,E#,F#,G#,A#,B#) the very next note up from B would be B#.

B# is the seventh degree in C# major so B would be a flat 7.

Also, this is the main scale (C# major) that breaks the BASIC RULE mentioned in the last lessons.

This is one of those cases where theory complicates things more than it has to be yikes

Steve

Last edited by canudigit (2009-07-14 14:59:08)

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#11 2009-07-14 14:56:39

wlbaye
Honoured Member
From: Black Hills So Dak
Registered: 2006-03-04
Posts: 1269
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

I think I'll just keep workin on my 3 chords and 3 songs!


Later, Wayne P

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#12 2009-07-14 15:17:31

canudigit
Member
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 71

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

Bofore going on any further, I would like to let you know a little bit about myself.

I have been playing guitar for 27 years.  Started taking lessons for about a year and then stopped because my guitar teacher passed away.

I decided to be a self taught musician and studied everything I could get my hands on.

I played in a Rock band Massachussetts for 15 years as the lead guitar player along with some lead and backup vocals.

At this time I own my own home studio and teach guitar at home.  Enough about me (unless you have any questions).

Don't give up so easy smile just take Lessons 1 and 2 for what they are. 

Think about your goals as a musician.

If you just want to read and strum chords then do just that.

If you would like to become a well rounded musician that can understand and play other instruments like bass, drums, keys, etc.. then this BASIC THEORY is important.

Maybe there are some people who would like to learn to play multiple instruments in a home studio for recording purposes, again this BASIC theory is important.

Theory has helped me to the point I don't have to think about anymore.  The rewards are priceless for the time and effort spent learning theory.

I truly am here to help who ever wants it.

Keep Jamming

Steve

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#13 2009-07-14 17:42:52

Russell_Harding
Alien moderator
From: A black hole in deep space
Registered: 2007-10-29
Posts: 6630
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

Steve I see nothing wrong with offering to help and if there is enough interest it can only benefit those with limited knowledge to improve themselves, I know the rewards of a good understanding of music theory as well as recording I also play lead and teach and seeing a student progress from no understanding to playing duets and even composition is worth more then money good luck and thanks for offering and sharing your knowledge here on Chordie smile


"Growing old is not for sissies"

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#14 2009-07-14 18:57:28

arkady
ambient moderator
From: England
Registered: 2006-11-23
Posts: 1939
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

Hi canudigit/Steve
Welcome to Chordie
Thanks for taking the time posting your theory lessons...
I've got question sorry not of the theory type more about yourself if that's ok...
Do you have any websites like Myspace or soundclick where I could have a listen to some of your music. I'm always interested in other musicians music. smile
ark

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#15 2009-07-14 18:58:03

jerome.oneil
Moderator
From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2006-06-15
Posts: 3072
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

Well, I think the point that Toney and myself were making is that self described "experts" may want to be cautious with statements like "B up to the very next note is C and not B#," which is only true for some keys,  but not all.  There was a bit of discussion in another thread on this topic that I think satisfactorily explained why C/B# or F/E# is really an issue with notation.  http://www.chordie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=12160

There is a rote level of understanding that personally I try to avoid, and blanket statements like the one above don't really help to gain understanding of theory, just the more common artifacts of theory.

Generalized it would state "The interval between the leading tone and the tonic is a half step, regardless of key."


Someday we'll win this thing...

www.aclosesecond.com

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#16 2009-07-14 20:08:41

canudigit
Member
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 71

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

Here is the definition of an expert

A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.

I could have been so eloquent with the words like jerome.oneil. 

Eloquent

Characterized by persuasive, powerful discourse: an eloquent speaker; an eloquent sermon.

You can say what you want but I am an expert and that's that.  I bet I have been playing more years than you were born!

If this was an class on being an English major I might have used those COOL words, but I like to speak so others can understand.

The way you stated this previously is just another way of saying exactly what I said, just in a different way.

I am amazed at how you treat someone who is giving his time and efforts to HELP others out. 

Also I only wanted to let others get a feel for who I am as a musician and not brag.

I did not see the previous post on this subject so I wasn't aware.

I hope to get some more backup (thanks arkady) on this so I can keep this thread going.  At this point I feel like I am being bashed.

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#17 2009-07-14 20:22:56

dfoskey
Senior Member
From: Georgia
Registered: 2007-07-10
Posts: 381

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

Canudigit welcome to the forums. I think you might have something to offer to those on here that ask for help. These other guys that have already studied theory just won't appreciate it as much as those of us who hasn't. Just wait until a question is asked and then fire away. You can be a help on chordie but a proper introduction would have been appreciated. Who takes advise or lessons from someone they haven't heard or know anything about? Again welcome to Chordie the best site there is for music and the forums there in.

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#18 2009-07-14 20:37:08

Russell_Harding
Alien moderator
From: A black hole in deep space
Registered: 2007-10-29
Posts: 6630
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

I think the "expert" in the title of the topic kind of ruffled a few feathers I dont call myself an expert even tho I have been playing for over 45 years there's always something new to learn, it comes down to levels of understanding and comprehension and execution mostly execution I always like to hear new artist so I kinda go along with Arkady on seeing and hearing so I can decide how much expertise anyone has or has not smile


"Growing old is not for sissies"

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#19 2009-07-14 21:45:40

wlbaye
Honoured Member
From: Black Hills So Dak
Registered: 2006-03-04
Posts: 1269
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

I hope no one takes offense to my comments, I know Russ knows I am just a Hillhippy from wyoming and you fellars are gettin to durned technical for me if I was a young wippersnapper I would love to learn more about music. Right now I'm sittin on the porch pickin and a grinnin.


Later, Wayne P

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#20 2009-07-14 21:47:38

bensonp
Honoured Member
From: Tooele Ut
Registered: 2006-03-04
Posts: 3833

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

I'm with you, wlbaye.  I'm just pickin an grinnin to my hearts content.  I even get a little better on ocassion.


You can see all my video covers on http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

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#21 2009-07-14 22:00:08

Russell_Harding
Alien moderator
From: A black hole in deep space
Registered: 2007-10-29
Posts: 6630
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

all theory aside if you enjoy just pickin and grinnin pick and grin away I do lol


"Growing old is not for sissies"

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#22 2009-07-14 22:09:52

Doug_Smith
Moderator
From: Western Oregon,US
Registered: 2008-07-22
Posts: 1229

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

Hi Canudigit, and WELCOME to Chordie!

  Like many others here I am self-taught and not as well educated in the theory side as I would like.  Constantly reading everything related and searching for the verbage that will result in the "Ah-Ha" moment when the flash-bulb of understanding ties all the little fragments of knowledge gained together.

  So to that end I am certainly not going to turn down any offers of assistance, and appreciate your interest in teaching us what you know from a different viewpoint.

  Everybody here on Chordie are willing to share and support those learners out there, and I'm sure that your contributions are heartfelt and will be appreciated.  Thanks for coming aboard and Welcome.

Take Care;
Doug


"what is this quintessence of dust?"  - Shakespeare

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#23 2009-07-14 22:15:43

canudigit
Member
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 71

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

I am sorry if I came across arogant, that is not what I intended at all. 

I was just trying to see if the title would get some attention and that it did.   
The funny thing about all of this is it all comes down to "playing guitar however you like", nothing more nothing less. 

If you accept my appologies and don't mind keeping this thread going, please do so otherwise I will just give my 2 cents on any theory questions that are asked.

Thanks

Steve

Last edited by canudigit (2009-07-15 01:00:43)

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#24 2009-07-15 01:47:18

jerome.oneil
Moderator
From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2006-06-15
Posts: 3072
Website

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

canudigit wrote:

You can say what you want but I am an expert and that's that.  I bet I have been playing more years than you were born!

If this was an class on being an English major I might have used those COOL words, but I like to speak so others can understand.

The way you stated this previously is just another way of saying exactly what I said, just in a different way.

Well, no.

The measure of an expert is accuracy.  And the statement "B up to the very next note is C and not B#," fundamentally, is wrong.  It is *not* a basic rule.  It is an artifact of how scales are built and is only true for certain keys.  While in practical application on the fretboard (most of us will never use those keys where it is relevant)  that does not make it "true." 

Theory exists apart from any particular instrument.  And as a science of intervals, we should try to be as accurate as possible in the words we use, so as to avoid confusion.  This is particularly true when we risk propagating falsehoods learned by rote ("there is no B#") rather than understanding how scales are derived, and what that means for particular intervals. 

The notes that "exist" are entirely dependent on the key that you play in.  Sometimes B# is real.   There are at least seven different modal scales that contain it derived from C# major. 

If this were a class on theory, you would be marked wrong on your statement.


Someday we'll win this thing...

www.aclosesecond.com

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#25 2009-07-15 12:22:35

canudigit
Member
Registered: 2007-09-01
Posts: 71

Re: Colaborative Music Theory

Ok if I say I am just a guitar player and not an "expert" and made that statement would that be acceptable?

I am just a musician who wants to help others with some basic music theory that I teach in my own words and not teach a college music theory course.

I take back the term expert (since that is what started this whole mess) comment and would like to be considered a musician helping other musicians out.

If need be I can change the title so no more feathers get ruffled.

Thanks

Steve

Last edited by canudigit (2009-07-15 19:07:11)

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