• From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Topic: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Ok... so I've been trying to play "Killing Me Softly" and I've heard a few different strums with this that include some form of slap in the strum.  I have no clue what it's called, but seems to use the word slap.  Anyhow, I've seen some mute the strings with their strumming palm and strum down... I've seen some basically tap the body, or thump it, and I've seen suggestions of actually slapping the bass strings with your thumb. 

So the one I'm trying kinda goes like this (with the thumb slap):  Down slap Up Up slap

Keep in mind I have a classical guitar, so my strings are much more loose than a steel string.  I find that the slap, if done with a little force, makes the strings actually hit the highest frets making a snare like sound.  This is pretty cool... but I kind of like the "thump" sound better (not executing it well tho).  I'm also finding that I don't quite strum hard enough to make the strings ring out when I'm playing with my bare fingers.  So now, here I am really strumming good and hard, slapping the guitar strings... and now my song sounds all... well... kinda "mean". 

Any suggestions?  Does anyone do the slap thing and how?  I might try my thumb pick and try to "tap" on the body although I think that will be a rather unflattering beat sound... also my up strums are not the best with my bare fingers, can I do this all with just my thumb and thumb pick or is using my fingers for an upstrum going to be the best bet?

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • wlbaye
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,284

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Hello Amy,

I use to play this song and my ex sister in law would sing it. I played it differently in different parts of the song but for the most part I would use a down strum and then on the up strums I would kinda pick single notes arppegio like, for the lead in I would just use one down strum then do the down strums and single note up strums. I was using a flat pick.

I will play it a few times and maybe come up with some Ideas smile

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • From: Madeira Beach, Florida
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 3,311

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Hi MKM - I believe you are finger picking, so I'll give you an idea in that direction. There are other methods that you could use if strumming with a pick (i.e. palm muting).

Check out this Adam Rafferty rendition of Superstition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVvfFtb3Y9s

About the 1:00 minute mark in this video, he explains how he does the "clicking"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5TgLXLx-xY

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!
  • wlbaye
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,284

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Heya Amy,

I played this song a few times then went to Youtube and looked. From my ear the best the song sounds is fingerpicking with no thumbpick just flesh on strings and fingerpick parts of the song and strum some also. Here's a video where she is doing both. Other than the intro she is mostly just following the chord progression. I also played it with a thumbpick palm muting but I think you need the notes ringing. You can do it smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4UyGUoPyS0

Sorry there aint no slappin goin on around here,  could be a song too

" MKM don't allow no slappin round here, MKM dont allow no slappin round here"

" I don't care what MKM don't allow do my slappin anyhow, MKM Dont allow no slappin round here smile

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • wlbaye
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,284

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Here's one of our local guitar players doing what I think your talking about with no picks. Jeff Troxel is a great player and a very nice guy too and has given me some tips on some do's and don'ts.

Please don't take this wrong but I would try to get fluid in your playing style and work on some finger picking patterns and this could be a goal down the road but when your singing and paying attention to chord changes and trying to keep your music tight there is alot going on here smile


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3v8D2X6sU8

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

WOW!  Ok... Jeff... those people are sooo far ahead of me, I'm curious to know if I could ever sound that good!  LOL!  THAT was AWESOME!  I do like the hint about hitting the thumb pick on the string tho... maybe I could do this with my pick while strumming (and maybe a little picking out of the notes... hmmmmm... that's a lot at once, but something to think about).

Wayne... I heard that one... I was thinking more like this:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0iCy_9HE-o  --- which it seems she's palm muting (it took me all day yesterday and half of today to figure this out!  LOL!  I am soooo new still!)

I love the little ditty you made up for me tho... I was laughing so hard!

I'm thinking more of just a strum... not actually picking.  I tend to start a new song with a basic down strum... then move on to something that sounds like a correct strum... then picking... then back to strumming and paying more attention to my chord changes... but this time, I thought this different sound would be better than trying to pick this one out.  I like how it sounds "recorded" ... but not so much "live" ... so I'm feelin a bit stuck.  But I will try with my pick and just tap my pick... and I'll try actually picking it out a little bit too (why not if I've already got the pick on my thumb!  LOL) ... hmmm... so many possibilities!!

... Fluid in my playing style... ahhh... I wish I could figure out WHAT my playing style is.  Sometimes I just want to strum... but then I end up wanting MORE... sometimes I just want to pick, but then that feels lacking too... I think I need to find a way to do both at once... but then I also have to switch chords at the same time smile  ha ha ha... I am a VERY impatient person sometimes.  I think that every song I have played, I have done it about 20 different ways.  I still diddle around with the song I wrote, playing different strum patterns and picking it out and all that.  I'm never overly thrilled w/ what I'm doing. 

On a happier note... my brother was over at Christmas, and after everyone went to bed I got the guitar out... he was still up... before you knew it we were singing away along with MY strumming.  It felt REALLY GOOD to have someone singing along to my playing with me.  What was I doing?  Just strumming.

Anyhow... I'll let you all know what I figure out... this will probably be the next one on youtube... it's a song that's very near and dear to my heart.  THANKS!!!  smile

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2007-02-08
  • Posts: 1,912

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

MK I use slaps, beats, muted strums and such in most of my music... If it would help you, I'll post you a vid showing several different ways to get that sound with or without a pick... I even have a cool little trick for turning your guitar into a multi keyed snare drum that people find really neat. -Pix

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Guitarpix's Website

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

good to know Pix... I'll have to have a listen at some more of your stuff... yeah, some different ways to get different sounds would be AWESOME!  The mulit-keyed snare drum thing sound very interesting!

I did play it a bit more... and kinda like the stum pick for verses... and the slap (w/ pick - not so loud) strums with the chorus... soon, very soon I'll have it close to how I want it (enough for the tube anyhow... probably never "perfect" in my mind tho)

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • wlbaye
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,284

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

MKM

Ok I watched the video you like, what she is doing isn't that difficult she is using what I call a chop and you hit the strings on the way down and palm mute at the same time and you can increase and decrease your muting like on upstrums. A girl that was very good at this told me when she started she would do the verses with the chop style and on the chorus she would let the notes ring. You can get a very good percusive sound and it is not that difficult. She is kinda of arpeggio picking at times on the upstrums which is kind of a note a time. You can do this and it is easy to get a good rhythm going once you get the hang of the chop.

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

so... it causes the strings to not ring out so much, depending on how much muting you do?  I think I get it... I'll try that tonight too!  THANKS!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Hey Pix... any update on a video with a little tutorial on slaps, beats, muted strums etc?  I did listen a little and found a few of the songs you've done with some of those slaps... I'd love to see more!  Thanks!!!  smile

Wayne... I just can't seem to get to what she is doing in that video.  I think the palm muting in general has me a little baffled... at least to make it fluid along with strums.  And then the chop thingie...wow.  I've been working on the song however with picking out the verses and slapping w/ chords during the chorus... but just using my pick mostly for the slap so it's not TOO snappy sounding. 

I listened over and over to different versions of this song.  The original is very pretty... BUT... I learned it from my Dad playing and singing it, so to me the song should be a little "stronger"; not so light and airy... but then I also don't like the "rap" type sound of the Fugees but I do like the beat in there.  So... I guess I'm trying to find an even ground to make it my own!  smile

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2007-02-08
  • Posts: 1,912

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

mekidsmom wrote:

Hey Pix... any update on a video with a little tutorial on slaps, beats, muted strums etc?  I did listen a little and found a few of the songs you've done with some of those slaps... I'd love to see more!  Thanks!!!  smile

Wayne... I just can't seem to get to what she is doing in that video.  I think the palm muting in general has me a little baffled... at least to make it fluid along with strums.  And then the chop thingie...wow.  I've been working on the song however with picking out the verses and slapping w/ chords during the chorus... but just using my pick mostly for the slap so it's not TOO snappy sounding. 

I listened over and over to different versions of this song.  The original is very pretty... BUT... I learned it from my Dad playing and singing it, so to me the song should be a little "stronger"; not so light and airy... but then I also don't like the "rap" type sound of the Fugees but I do like the beat in there.  So... I guess I'm trying to find an even ground to make it my own!  smile

Sorry MK, Been busy this week... I'll get it up for you either this evening or tomorrow smile

Here's a cool little tune to work on the slap with smile You can play this song with one hand... pluck the D string and slap x2, G string and slap x2 then the A string with a slap x4.... I'll cover it in the vid.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OdJImQ5mRU

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Guitarpix's Website

  • Zurf
  • Zurf
  • Blunt but well meaning moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2007-06-27
  • Posts: 7,522

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Play it mean on the guitar and add some whiskey and cigarettes so rasp up your voice to match the meanness of the guitar.  Problem solved.

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

14 Reply by wlbaye (edited by wlbaye 2010-01-22 12:40:59)

  • wlbaye
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,284

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Amy,

I will do a vid on the first song I learned to do a chop pick on, "El Condor Pasa" it is simple and easy to follow. Once you have the chop and muting down you can use it in lots of songs and different arrangements. Just don't beat me up to bad on the vocal part of it my girls did the vocals and I was just the lonely guitar player smile

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Sounds good Pix and Wayne!  You guys are the best!

Zurf... yep... I think that's about how Dad sounded, although he always preferred VO, and I prefer Jack ... of course, I haven't worked on this while drinking yet... but do you think the VO will make the difference?  LOL!  I'd say I'll try it tonight with a few drinks, but the hubby and I are heading out to listen to this band:  http://www.fabulousripcords.com/  -- my hubster works with one of the guys, and it's at a VERY popular downtown place (Dinosaur BBQ) which I have actually never been to.  Sooo... the drinks with the song will have to wait a bit.  tongue

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • wlbaye
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,284

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Ok Amy,

I did a video of some palm muting and chop picking. My video cam is broke so I did it with my digital and it didn't pick the guitar up  very well. But here it is smile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXVDBkEPDPM

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • wlbaye
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,284

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Getting back to your original request and slap strumming, here is a vid that is probably what you were refering to.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Oqnegu938

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Wayne... thank you VERY MUCH!  You have no idea how much your video helped me!  I do not know why, but I just could NOT get it, until I watched your video.  You really have a good way of explaining things!  Now, of course I'm going to have to practice the heck out of that before I can do it well, but at least I "get it" now!  smile YAY!

Yes, that video you posted, I saw him.  That was kinda where I was starting from, but then waned a little bit more of the sound that the girl was doing with the palm muting/chop picking.  I'm playing with both now.

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • wlbaye
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,284

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

I am glad you got something out of it. I was not happy with the video but I didn't have much time. My little digital camera picks up voice pretty well but the guitar doesn't come thru very well. I should have plugged it into my amp and the effect would have come thru better smile

I bet within a day you will have it going pretty good smile

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • Registered: 2007-04-03
  • Posts: 3,489

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBPTuAl2Qyk

Hi mekidsmom,  John Martyn in the link attached was known to slap while playing. I have friends who
greatly admired him, strangly enough they all play guitar like him.

Old Doll.

Why Blend in with the Crowd ? When you were made to stand out !
  • Zurf
  • Zurf
  • Blunt but well meaning moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2007-06-27
  • Posts: 7,522

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Wayne - Great job on the educational video. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Old Doll... that was fantastic to listen to... ahhh... so soulful and relaxing and wonderful!  Thank you!

Wayne, although you weren't happy with it, I truly was!  It's taking a bit of work to get it just right, but I do think that this is nice for this song rather than the slap.  It gives that hint of a beat without being too "pop" sounding.  I don't want it to sound too fugees like... but I want that little bit of a beat.  I'm liking it ... I'm liking it a LOT!  Thank you again!

I will have to do some experimenting with the actual slap tho too... especially after listening to this from Old Doll... it's so inspirational.  I continue to be amazed at what can be done with the guitar... even when I don't know very many chords, notes, or theory!  smile  Guitar... my lifelong adventure!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • wlbaye
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,284

Re: Creating a beat, slap strumming?

Thanks Zurf smile

Thanks Amy, I was gonna take the video down , but I guess I will leave it for awhile. One of the best tools to have in your bag of guitar tricks in my opinion, and have a nice rhythm whether strumming, picking or whatever your attack is. Learn your chords and learn to do an alternating bass with each chord.

Most of us lonely closet players will be playing alone most of the time and it makes your playing sound fuller and have a full band effect.

Helena, John is a just a wonderful musician, and Kathy is also. I have a friend that I graduated from high school with that played steel guitar with Kathy. I visited him a couple months ago and played with him.

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website