You are not logged in.

#1 2012-06-29 00:03:26

Sonnya
Member
From: Florida
Registered: 2011-12-25
Posts: 26

I was told by another it didn't matter`

I was told by a very good guitar player it really didn't matter about the stum in' pattern as long as you made chord changes when you should.  Now She plays good and hardly any stumming she did was a like, what does this mean?  Help me out here..


! Corinthians 15:1-4

Offline

 

#2 2012-06-29 00:30:44

Astronomikal
Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Moderator
From: Texas
Registered: 2009-11-01
Posts: 644

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

Just a guess, but maybe what she's trying to tell you is that at this point, as long as you can strum and keep a good rhythm that it's more important to work on getting your chord changes down, clean and on time. 

Once you become more adept at changing chords quickly and cleanly, you won't have to think about that part as much, and then you can concentrate on varying your strumming pattern to better fit the song you are playing.

That's the way I really learned how to play.  I was stuck in a strumming pattern and all of my songs sounded alike.  But that allowed me to become much more adept at chord work with my fretting hand.  After that period, chords became more automatic, and then I concentrated on varying my strumming.

Anyway, it worked for me.


"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." - Despair, Inc.

Offline

 

#3 2012-06-29 03:15:20

zguitar
Don't call me Sir
From: Mentone, Ca
Registered: 2009-01-10
Posts: 1351

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

Astronomikal wrote:

Just a guess, but maybe what she's trying to tell you is that at this point, as long as you can strum and keep a good rhythm that it's more important to work on getting your chord changes down, clean and on time. 

Once you become more adept at changing chords quickly and cleanly, you won't have to think about that part as much, and then you can concentrate on varying your strumming pattern to better fit the song you are playing.

That's the way I really learned how to play.  I was stuck in a strumming pattern and all of my songs sounded alike.  But that allowed me to become much more adept at chord work with my fretting hand.  After that period, chords became more automatic, and then I concentrated on varying my strumming.

Anyway, it worked for me.

I'm hoping that she meant what 'Nom said because I believe that the strum is just as important as the chords. It gives the song it's rhythm. Was this in a teaching kind of setting that she told you this?


Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline

 

#4 2012-06-29 03:48:56

M.B.
Senior Member
Registered: 2012-03-12
Posts: 186

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

Astronomikal wrote:

Just a guess, but maybe what she's trying to tell you is that at this point, as long as you can strum and keep a good rhythm that it's more important to work on getting your chord changes down, clean and on time. 

Once you become more adept at changing chords quickly and cleanly, you won't have to think about that part as much, and then you can concentrate on varying your strumming pattern to better fit the song you are playing.

That's the way I really learned how to play.  I was stuck in a strumming pattern and all of my songs sounded alike.  But that allowed me to become much more adept at chord work with my fretting hand.  After that period, chords became more automatic, and then I concentrated on varying my strumming.

Anyway, it worked for me.

Good advice, Astro!

Offline

 

#5 2012-06-29 04:03:13

topdown
Margarator
From: Madeira Beach, Florida
Registered: 2007-12-06
Posts: 2815

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

The rhythm matters, the beat matters, the feel and tempo matters. Strumming patterns don't mean a hill of beans. You can oftentimes play the same song in numerous patterns and each sound as good as the other. You can even vary strumming patterns in the same song.  That's why I hate "what is the strumming pattern to this song" questions - there ain't no such thing - strum what feels and sounds good for the moment, then change it when the feeling moves you. If it sounds good it is good.


Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!

Offline

 

#6 2012-06-29 06:22:10

beamer
THE METALIZER
From: Texas
Registered: 2006-07-30
Posts: 1420

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

topdown wrote:

The rhythm matters, the beat matters, the feel and tempo matters. Strumming patterns don't mean a hill of beans. You can oftentimes play the same song in numerous patterns and each sound as good as the other. You can even vary strumming patterns in the same song.  That's why I hate "what is the strumming pattern to this song" questions - there ain't no such thing - strum what feels and sounds good for the moment, then change it when the feeling moves you. If it sounds good it is good.

lol  IN your words

Ruel #1 If it sounds good it is good.
Ruel #2 Refer to ruel #1  lol lol


Mal - Well, lady, I must say, you're my kinda stupid.
Mal - Jayne, your mouth is talking. You might wanna look to that
Kaylee - No power in the verse can stop me. BOOK-  you're going to burn in a very special level of hell. A level they reserve for child molesters and people who talk at the theatre.

Offline

 

#7 2012-06-29 10:07:32

joeyjoeyjoey
Honoured Member
From: massachusetts
Registered: 2010-10-18
Posts: 1115

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

topdown wrote:

The rhythm matters, the beat matters, the feel and tempo matters. Strumming patterns don't mean a hill of beans. You can oftentimes play the same song in numerous patterns and each sound as good as the other. You can even vary strumming patterns in the same song.  That's why I hate "what is the strumming pattern to this song" questions - there ain't no such thing - strum what feels and sounds good for the moment, then change it when the feeling moves you. If it sounds good it is good.

I wish lead singers shared that thought. My thought is, if you want to hear a song exactly like it is done, buy the disc. If I were Leonard Cohen, then I could sound like Leonard Cohen. I`m not. So I will never sound like that. So I try to play what sounds best at the time.


Enjoy Every Sandwich - Dr. Lee Lipsenthal

Offline

 

#8 2012-06-29 16:22:57

Sonnya
Member
From: Florida
Registered: 2011-12-25
Posts: 26

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

You know what, this makes me feel better.  I do not have my chord changes down as I would like, the feel of the song I have no problem with, this is all good news and now I feel I can keep on keeping on and not get so frustratyed, thanks again


! Corinthians 15:1-4

Offline

 

#9 2012-06-29 17:32:28

NELA
Moderator
From: West Monroe, La. 71292
Registered: 2007-11-28
Posts: 1009
Website

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

Sonnya, keep this in mind. Regardles as to what the strum pattern is the chord changes need to be as close as possible. This is why a song is "metered' (different subject) When you are playing rythem and strumming you NEVER want to stop strumming to change chords. Even if you make a strum with ALL the strings open or totally miss a chord change - just keep strumming so the tempo does not change at the next chord change.. The strumming gives you the rythem, tempo, beat, or whatever you want to call it, going. Most songs with a "given" strum pattern" can be viewed as "this is a suggestion". You have to be learn to listen to a song and then be able to feel the tempo. Again - make the song fit you.

Nela

Offline

 

#10 2012-06-29 20:57:11

jerome.oneil
Moderator
From: Bellevue, WA
Registered: 2006-06-15
Posts: 3072
Website

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

topdown wrote:

The rhythm matters, the beat matters, the feel and tempo matters. Strumming patterns don't mean a hill of beans. You can oftentimes play the same song in numerous patterns and each sound as good as the other. You can even vary strumming patterns in the same song.  That's why I hate "what is the strumming pattern to this song" questions - there ain't no such thing - strum what feels and sounds good for the moment, then change it when the feeling moves you. If it sounds good it is good.

What I call that up there, is truth.   My only complaint is I have to figure out how top got into my head to say it for me.  smile


Someday we'll win this thing...

www.aclosesecond.com

Offline

 

#11 2012-06-29 21:45:00

Astronomikal
Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Moderator
From: Texas
Registered: 2009-11-01
Posts: 644

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

topdown wrote:

The rhythm matters, the beat matters, the feel and tempo matters.

Strumming patterns don't mean a hill of beans.

I think I get what you're saying, but I read your statements above as a contradiction.  In my tiny little mind, the rhythm, beat, feel and tempo are all determined by (or at least influenced by) the strumming pattern.

While I totally agree with your rule #1 (if it sounds good, it is good) there are purists out there, and I'm likely one of them, who expect a song to sound a certain way.  If I play an ABBA song using a boom-chuck pattern, some may think it sounds good (in the name of "interpretation"), but to me it would sound pretty awful.

So maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think the strumming pattern DOES matter.  But hey, to each his/her own.


"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." - Despair, Inc.

Offline

 

#12 2012-06-29 21:54:23

bensonp
Honoured Member
From: Tooele Ut
Registered: 2006-03-04
Posts: 3833

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

It really doesn't matter if you are singing
With it in my opinion. The lyrics and melody are what people recognize.  If you are just strumming chords you may recognize the song but others probably wont


You can see all my video covers on http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

Offline

 

#13 2012-06-29 22:25:18

dino48
Honoured Member
From: los banos,california
Registered: 2007-04-06
Posts: 4882

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

topdown wrote:

The rhythm matters, the beat matters, the feel and tempo matters. Strumming patterns don't mean a hill of beans. You can oftentimes play the same song in numerous patterns and each sound as good as the other. You can even vary strumming patterns in the same song.  That's why I hate "what is the strumming pattern to this song" questions - there ain't no such thing - strum what feels and sounds good for the moment, then change it when the feeling moves you. If it sounds good it is good.

Topdown got it right on the money!!


my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman.

Offline

 

#14 2012-06-29 23:31:34

zguitar
Don't call me Sir
From: Mentone, Ca
Registered: 2009-01-10
Posts: 1351

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

Astronomikal wrote:

topdown wrote:

The rhythm matters, the beat matters, the feel and tempo matters.

Strumming patterns don't mean a hill of beans.

I think I get what you're saying, but I read your statements above as a contradiction.  In my tiny little mind, the rhythm, beat, feel and tempo are all determined by (or at least influenced by) the strumming pattern.

While I totally agree with your rule #1 (if it sounds good, it is good) there are purists out there, and I'm likely one of them, who expect a song to sound a certain way.  If I play an ABBA song using a boom-chuck pattern, some may think it sounds good (in the name of "interpretation"), but to me it would sound pretty awful.

So maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think the strumming pattern DOES matter.  But hey, to each his/her own.

I totally agree with 'Nom. And to add, (I've side this before) most newbies have no idea how to go about learning how to strum and they don't know how to make a song their own. So when they want to learn a song it is going to be an imitation. They like a song for how it sounds and want to reproduce it. With more experience they can make it their own.

Anyway I can see both sides of it.


Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline

 

#15 2012-06-30 00:13:59

Zurf
Blunt but well meaning moderator
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 2007-06-27
Posts: 5748

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

Well, here's my problem with that.  This is one of those "take it for what it's worth" moments.  What you hear on a record usually has a bass guitar, a rhythm guitar, a lead guitar, drummer, percussionist, maybe a sax or trumpet player, and some dude on harmonica plus a couple chicks banging on tambourines.  You have an acoustic guitar.  Good luck trying to replicate that. 

If you try to replicate the sound of a whole band with an acoustic guitar, you won't. 

Listen to a really good solo bar guitarist.  What you will hear him play will be pieces and parts of the drum beat, the percussionist's fills, the rhythm guitar's strums, and the lead guitarist's riffs all blended together.  That's as close as you're ever going to get to "replicating" a piece without a band. 

Whether you want to or not, you're going to either have to put together a tribute band with common interests in perfectly replicating studio recordings, or you're going to have to wrap your head around the concept of arranging a piece to solo work. 

Are strum patterns important?  Oh heck yeah!  Is it the most important thing?  Not even close.  Keeping time is the most important thing, followed closely by staying in key.  By the time you figure those two things out for any given song, you're arranging.


"Forced means you're painting a train blue."  - Jets60
"If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome!" - Mekidsmom
"Don't ever apologize for what you have worked hard for." - Pete Benson
Official recipient of B chord amnesty.

Offline

 

#16 2012-06-30 03:01:52

TwangTown
Senior Member
From: Dunedin, New Zealand
Registered: 2007-01-01
Posts: 187

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

The strum is the "heartbeat" of the song; you can imitate the original, upbeat or downbeat it, or even change it to a style that more suits your voice or music style preference, but it is as essential to the integrity of a song played acoustically, as correct chords/changes and melody. If a song is strummed poorly, it it immediately ruins it. Done well, it enhances it.


"War never determines who is right , only who is left"
"Democracy is the right to protest about  the lack of it!"

Offline

 

#17 2012-06-30 09:45:15

Phill Williams
THE MODERATE MODERATOR
From: The Land Of Song
Registered: 2007-12-10
Posts: 2549
Website

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

i think the point everyone is trying to get across is that the beat of the song IS THE HEART. chord strumming is kind of in the eye of the beholder, inasmuch as if you are playing with another guitarist (or any number of guitarists) it's going to be silly if your all strumming the same pattern!

the chord changes are all important, so if one player is playing open chords the second may be playing single strum barre chords while a third may be playing counter rhythm (like reggae) on D shape chords. it's how arrangements are made up.

but all must follow the beat otherwise the song just becomes a mish-mash. you can also add a fourth guitarist to the mix playing what i think your friend is referring to....FINGER PICKING! even then good finger pickers keep to a rhythm or beat or it becomes the dreaded mish-mash!

if you have a simple drum machine or a metronome to keep the beat/rhythm while you strum/finger pick, your playing and whatever music you make will sound and feel better.

phill


There are two "L's" in Phill

Offline

 

#18 2012-09-05 11:09:21

Tomokofreer
Junior Member
Registered: 2012-09-05
Posts: 2

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

You can oftentimes play the same song in numerous patterns and each sound as good as the other.

Offline

 

#19 2012-09-05 15:11:53

Tyson7
Senior Member
From: Wisconsin
Registered: 2011-04-25
Posts: 298
Website

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

I think Top and Joey got it right, Play it the way you feel it. You are almost never going to play it like the original and maybe not the same way twice. I've been playing out for years as a solo performer. Each night and each crowd will affect your performance, even your own mood. Make the song your own ,people will enjoy you for who you are and what you bring to a particular song. If you try to play an original just as it was recorded than you'll be judged by that original. If you make it your own you can change it up as long as most people still connect with the song you'll be OK.I don't play the same song the same way every time because I don't fell the same every day. I've had people tell me they liked my version of a song better than the original. That's a great compliment. Play it as you fell it.

   Joe

Offline

 

#20 2012-09-06 14:37:13

Zurf
Blunt but well meaning moderator
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 2007-06-27
Posts: 5748

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

Tyson7 wrote:

I think Top and Joey got it right, Play it the way you feel it. You are almost never going to play it like the original and maybe not the same way twice. I've been playing out for years as a solo performer. Each night and each crowd will affect your performance, even your own mood. Make the song your own ,people will enjoy you for who you are and what you bring to a particular song. If you try to play an original just as it was recorded than you'll be judged by that original. If you make it your own you can change it up as long as most people still connect with the song you'll be OK.I don't play the same song the same way every time because I don't fell the same every day. I've had people tell me they liked my version of a song better than the original. That's a great compliment. Play it as you fell it.

   Joe

Well said.  A case to illustrate the point is You've Got a Friend.  It was written by Carol King as a piano piece and she was the first to record it as a pop song.  James Taylor fell in love with the song, and being as he and Carol King have been friends forever he got permission to record it.  He recorded it in the 1970's in the studio and it became a huge hit for him as a folk/pop song.  In the '90's he recorded it again on stage on the James Taylor Live! album, and it has an entirely different sound and feel.  It moves from folk/pop to soul.  He recorded it again in 2010 or so with he and Carol King playing it together and it has yet a different feel of a piano bar jazz song (with Carol King's exquisite piano playing added back in).  Now, bear in mind that the 2010 version was a purposeful replication of 1970 era concerts, but because they each had another 40 years of practice and growth, as did their back up band, they nevertheless had a different sound.  So given that, what's the so-called 'right' way to play "You've Got a Friend?"   Is it a pop song, a folk/pop song, a soul song, or a piano bar jazz song?  What's the strumming pattern to a piano tune? 

It is possible to perfectly replicate a guitar part, and if that's your thing then you should do that and have fun with it.  It is not possible to perfectly replicate a song played by an entire band by playing solo on an acoustic guitar. 

- Zurf


"Forced means you're painting a train blue."  - Jets60
"If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome!" - Mekidsmom
"Don't ever apologize for what you have worked hard for." - Pete Benson
Official recipient of B chord amnesty.

Offline

 

#21 2012-09-06 16:01:01

Tyson7
Senior Member
From: Wisconsin
Registered: 2011-04-25
Posts: 298
Website

Re: I was told by another it didn't matter`

Zurf,
Great analogy. It's all anbout having fun with a song.

  Joe

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson