1 (edited by beamer 2016-07-19 01:57:02)

Topic: Bad Habits and mistakes

As to the title topic.

If you have followed my narrative in the Guitars and Accessories section, You have read that the boys are getting back into music, one on drums and one on guitar. 

I opted to get Cory started on lessons yesterday vice waiting a week.  I am very glad I did.  This brings up the "Bad Habits".
He has good rhythm, and was trying to expand on what he learned in band. So after a few introductions with his new instructor, they were off.  Cory discovered that what he thought he knew was all the wrong things when it came to kick and 3 different things at one time.  He was eager but I could see the frustration level as he was stopped and corrected.  His instructor was firm but never "uncool" .  So Cory learned what he was doing wrong and what new mussel memory he  has to work on.  I was also allowed to record the whole lesson so we would not get home and practice all week and find out what we thought sounded correct was still wrong.  By 11 pm last night when I got home from my band  practice, (we ate BBQ and fiddled with the acoustics lolol) He had the Kick, snare, and  cymbal lesson down pretty good.   Then I put him on a click.  It was hard for him and he quit using it, I told him he may not notice a difference, but that I defiantly could.   The instructor was not worried about it at this point since his goal is to teach new muscle memory, so I did not argue with him other than noting he played better with it.  He also told Cory to practice till he hated the lesson and practice some more.  Also, Like many of us he was over thinking and trying too hard.   He was told to quit thinking and start listening.  (I had to choke back a laugh because Jerome and Alan are ALWAYS saying that to me! smile  lol )
After we left, I asked him "Would you have let me talk to you like that when yo messed up?"  "Nope"  LOLOL 

Topic two, Is a perceived mistake really a mistake?

I bring this up because on Saturday night, I asked Cade (the older boy) if he wanted to learn some simple 3 chord songs just to get him having fun and break him out of the rut of4 other songs he remembered from his lessons 4 years ago or so.
My goal was to get him to start using more open chords and correct fingering of strings.

We started off with Simple Man. and he was catching on pretty good but in my mind was playing the Am part "wrong".  I stopped and showed it to him again and he was not hearing anything different between me and him.  As my insistence grew stronger on "what needed to be played" verse what he was playing started to increase he was about to just get pissed at dad and also reminded me it had been 4 yrs since he has really played anything new.   So I backed off and said , ok hold on, Yes you can play it your way, but maybe try it doing the pull off this way, and WALA!  He had it.  Then we banged around on Needle and the spoon, Hey Joe and All along the watchtower. 
What did dad learn? Some mistakes are not really important and can become someones style.  Learning needs to stay fun! something I forgot while being a "Teacher" and then I also heard my own words come back at me though he did not know I have made some of the exact statements he made.  This was the PALM TO FOREHEAD moment.
He said he had a good time, and I hope he did.  I also had to tell him 3 of the biggest things he needed to work on was,  #1 cut left hand fingernails and fret with tips not flats especially on open chords. #2 Get your elbow off your leg! LOL and #3 Use alt picking and strums #4 SLOW DOWN.

Trying to teach my kids is different, cause lets face it, they naturally want to tell you you are wrong! LOLOL  For me it was a lesson in regaining patients and not  trying to be THAT GUY who is hard on his kids  for his own short comings, like many sideline fathers at football.   I hope for my kids to love the music as much as I do, and yes I hope they play better and do more with it than I have. That is  what all parents want for their kids right?

Thanks for making it down this far if you did read all that.  Feel free to join the topic smile


Cheers Everyone!

“Find your own sound.  Dont be a second rateYngwie Malmsteen be a first rate you”

– George Lynch 2013 (Dokken, Lynchmob, KXM, Tooth & Nail etc....)

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

TOPIC TWO: Is a perceived mistake really a mistake?

Your narrative indicates that both of you are learning something useful, that will not only help the growth in music, but as people also. Sounds like everyone's winning!

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

Ya know, I think anyone can music and enjoy music.  Sometimes there's a need to do it "correctly" and "well" and other times it's a matter of doing it for the fun of it.  smile  Knowing how to play correctly and well certainly is a difficult point to get to, but makes the fun - down the road - more enjoyable.  It's just not always so enjoyable to start with. 

I figure someday I'll learn how to play "correctly" and "well".  smile  In the meantime, I'm having fun and enjoying it.  So just remember, Scott:  sometimes it's practice to learn how to do it correctly and well - and sometimes it NEEDS to just be FUN.  Find a balance.  Push them when they need the push, and let them just have fun when they need a break from the practice grind so they don't get too flustered and throw their hands up in the air and quit. 

When I took voice lessons, I HATED listening to the recordings of myself singing.  The whole point of it was to POINT OUT what I was doing WRONG so that I could correct it.  It worked great, but it was painful. LOL!  When I'd had enough, I'd sing my heart out to some simple songs to keep the enjoyment aspect in there.  Same with the clarinet.  Every reed squeak was pain (to everyone listening).  After enough practice, it was time to just push the envelope and try to make the squeaks sound purposeful!

It's my opinion that people don't quit because it's too difficult, they quit because the difficulty makes it no longer fun and enjoyable.  THAT is what music is about after all, right?  smile  Encourage, point out the improvement, point out when you see it getting "easier" because the muscle memory is improving, and encourage them to take breaks from practicing on perfection and just do something FUN.  Sometimes, those fun mistakes become amazing breakthroughs.  By purposefully causing a clarinet reed squeak, I learned better how to avoid it and I didn't even realize it. wink

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

As musicians, we tend to notice a lot more mistakes and stylistic interpretations than most folks do. I have a rule (which may not apply when teaching your kids) that I never offer unsolicited advice. If I'm listening to another musician, I just listen. If I'm asked to listen, I just listen. If I'm asked for my opinion, it is 100% of the time a positive one. Only if I am explicitly asked for advice/critique will I give it. The only exception to this rule is if someone is doing damage to themselves or an instrument that is not owned by them. smile

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

Bad Habits and Mistakes - I thought you were going to ask me to write a lesson book given that "bad habits and mistakes" pretty much describes my whole style.

I have been told that for every negative comment (and remember that the kids are going to consider anything neutral as negative) you have to provide ten or more positive comments.  I think that seems a bit light.  More positive comments are probably appropriate when dealing with teens.  They're awfully sensitive critters.

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

I love the line. Quit thinking and start listening.

Thick as two short planks

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

keepitreal wrote:

I love the line. Quit thinking and start listening.

I KNOW, RIGHT!  biggest problem I have at band practice because I want to get it right so bad, and I start over thinking it.

“Find your own sound.  Dont be a second rateYngwie Malmsteen be a first rate you”

– George Lynch 2013 (Dokken, Lynchmob, KXM, Tooth & Nail etc....)

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

Zurf wrote:

Bad Habits and Mistakes - I thought you were going to ask me to write a lesson book given that "bad habits and mistakes" pretty much describes my whole style.

- Zurf

ME TOO.  I think thats why I get upset when he is making them and does not care, but we had fun in the end and he started getting it.

“Find your own sound.  Dont be a second rateYngwie Malmsteen be a first rate you”

– George Lynch 2013 (Dokken, Lynchmob, KXM, Tooth & Nail etc....)

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

Mistakes sometimes turn into "happy accidents" ie: if Dr. Fleming hadn't dropped that crumb of bread into the petri dish of Bacteria, we wouldn't have Pennicillin.  Usually if no mistakes happen you don't learn anything of great consequence.

As for "Bad Habits", that's another matter.  Remember when playing guitar with the neck below your belt buckle was "cool" ?  I know a guy who many years later had to have his Carpal Tunnels fixed, and the tendons were so badly shredded that they had to tie three together.  He now has a working thumb and index, but the rest all move as one unit. He only has 3 strings on his guitar anymore because he can ONLY make "power chords".
He's still rockin' at 67..... but really wishes he'd paid more attention to that dull ache 40 years ago!

"what is this quintessence of dust?"  - Shakespeare

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

I wish I had had someone like you to teach me guitar, Beamer. I too picked up a lot of bad habits (not practicing going from chord to chord is just one of many), both by trying to teach myself and what I was picking up "on the road" (rythm guitarist's bad habits became mine and so on - like a virus - I probably taught my grandson the same ones I "learned". I enjoyed reading your experience with your son and hope you will post more updates as y'all go along. Maybe I'll learn to play better as well. smile

Thanks for sharing!

Bill

Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Fender GDO300 Orchestral - a gift from Amy & Jim
Rogue Beatle Bass
Journal: www.wheretobud.blogspot. com

Re: Bad Habits and mistakes

Thanks Bill. 
I got home the other night, and he says "Dad I learned the main riff for Cowboys from Hell" I was like WELL ALRIGHT SHOW ME!  He had it, but was still playing too fast.  i told him its great man, just SLOW DOWN. lolol AND CUT THE FINGERNAILS! lol

“Find your own sound.  Dont be a second rateYngwie Malmsteen be a first rate you”

– George Lynch 2013 (Dokken, Lynchmob, KXM, Tooth & Nail etc....)