1 (edited by Strummerboy Bill 2016-12-12 18:16:41)

Topic: Bassists?

Ever since hearing Paul McCartney's fingers dance around on that Höfner of his, I have always been fascinated by this instrument. It provides so much "depth" in the song and if you're lucky enough to have a bassist in your band who can also sing, you have half the band already! In my own opinion, of course! smile

So I have some questions of those of you who play this instrument:

1. Will you stay with 4 strings? Does it bother you to go to as many as EIGHT (a la Greg Lake)? Do you NEED more than four strings?

2. Did you begin with bass or did you come from the six-string?

3. Is it more/less/ or the same amount of difficulty singing with playing bass as opposed to a rhythm guitarist playing and singing his part?

4. Giving advice to a novice about playing bass guitar, how important is the instrument you would recommend and why? A good "starter" bass is _______ and here's why:_____________

5. If you are an instructor, do you teach the importance of drums playing tightly with the bass and how successful (given today's "Hurry up, teach me!!" attitude) have you been?

6. Where are you on Chordie? You play a stringed instrument, and you are a VERY integral part of the overall sound of the band, so please share with us your expertise.

Thanks,

Bill

EDITED: To fix "Palmer" to Lake. Y'all are supposed to catch these mistakes and rib me about them! smile For my friends across the waves and up above America and to the side, "rib" means "joke"..... smile

Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Fender GDO300 Orchestral - a gift from Amy & Jim
Rogue Beatle Bass
Journal: www.wheretobud.blogspot. com

Re: Bassists?

Wow Bill, when you ask a question you don't pull any punches.

1. I know there are 5, 6 and 8 stringed basses but I'm a simple kinda guy and four are enough for me.

2. I began with 6 strings and graduated to bass to join a band.

3. Never gave this much thought. Simple C/W songs and lot of rock tunes are quite easy. More riff orientated songs are more difficult so require a lot of practice.

4. Get a cheap one to start the harder it is to play the more pleasure you'll get when you get a good one.

5. I don't have the patience to teach but drum and bass playing together is a beautiful thing.

6. I'm in the UK and you know me William (Opie) and you know what I do.

The rhythm section of a band or recording are the basis of the sound and the tighter they are the better the sound and feel. Lead guitar and vocals and keyboards, horn section? etc add to the colour. So why is it the axeman and the singer that get all the glory, and the girls?

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Re: Bassists?

Hope Zurf sees this. As I recall he gigged on the bass for years.

4 (edited by TIGLJK 2016-12-12 16:01:13)

Re: Bassists?

I have never even held a bass in my hands  smile

are they harder to play than a six string acoustic ?

Your vision is not limited by what your eye can see, but what your mind can imagine.
Make your life count, and the world will be a better place because you tried.

"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except only the the best." - Henry Van Dyke

5 (edited by Zurf 2016-12-12 17:40:09)

Re: Bassists?

Strummerboy Bill wrote:

Ever since hearing Paul McCartney's fingers dance around on that Höfner of his, I have always been fascinated by this instrument. It provides so much "depth" in the song and if you're lucky enough to have a bassist in your band who can also sing, you have half the band already! In my own opinion, of course! smile

So I have some questions of those of you who play this instrument:

1. Will you stay with 4 strings? Does it bother you to go to as many as EIGHT (a la Greg Palmer)? Do you NEED more than four strings?

Zurf: 4 strings.  5 strings are handy, because sometimes being able to reach over one string would be a lot easier than stretching way up the fretboard.  I mostly played "in the box" and so the fifth string wasn't necessary.  I've heard some absolutely amazing funk played by people with six stringed basses.  I don't much see the point of going up to six or eight strings, but as long as they don't ask me to pay for them I don't care what other bassists choose to play.

2. Did you begin with bass or did you come from the six-string?

Zurf: I began with trumpet.  Then moved to baritone.  Then added slide trombone, bass trombone, and tuba.  Then began with an upright bass playing classical music with a bow.  Then moved into playing doghouse bass in a big band.  (Same style of instrument but different percussive plucking playing style)  After that, I was back to trombone for a year at a playhouse orchestra, then came back for the next season playing doghouse bass and a little bass trombone as needed.  Then I stepped away from music for a long while.  Then I started with a wooden flute, which didn't work out.  Then harmonicas, which worked out a little better because I could riff against a record or the radio.  It worked well to play in traffic and raised some eyebrows when I had the windows open and sunroof open.  Then I had a couple drinks with the guys after work, realized I too drunk to drive and walked it off by doing a little shopping, walked into a pawn shop and fell in love with an Ovation Magnum 3 hanging on the wall.  I talked the guy down to $125 from $450 and walked out with it.  I played that a lot with friends, then fell in with a worship and praise band and played every week for churches.  When that broke up, I got bored with playing with CDs in the basement after being part of a band with a real tight rhythm section and finally moved to guitar.  There were also aborted attempts at percussion, fiddle and autoharp in there somewhere.  I'd like my next instrument to be congas with bongos.  I've never given up on that percussion desire. 


3. Is it more/less/ or the same amount of difficulty singing with playing bass as opposed to a rhythm guitarist playing and singing his part?

Zurf: I find it much, much harder to play bass and sing than to play guitar and sing.  When playing guitar as self-accompaniment, my fingers more or less go on rote and roll through the chords.  Rhythm came pretty easily to me after all my years of playing various whatnot.  So I can concentrate on the next words to come, and try to concentrate on keeping my throat open, etc.  I usually still have to read the lyrics to allow me to concentrate on the other stuff.  With bass, trying to listen to the drums and the rhythm guitar and pick up the pieces of the groove that they haven't or can't get, and stay tight, and still keep my low groove groovy, trying to add singing into that is just too much for me.  I can usually sing backup, but trying to lead vocals while playing bass is super difficult for me.

4. Giving advice to a novice about playing bass guitar, how important is the instrument you would recommend and why? A good "starter" bass is _______ and here's why:_____________

Zurf: A good starter electric bass is an Ibanez GX10 or G10 or something like that.  The Squire versions of Fender P-basses are also nice. I like these because they have good tone without the need for pedals and pre-amps and all sort of nonsense.  You just play them and they sound good.  I like MusicMan basses too, but wouldn't consider them to be beginner instruments because of the price. There are a million really good basses out there for sub-$200.  But I like the Ibanez and Squires.  Personal preference.  As for lessons, in my opinion scales, arpeggios, and inversions are critical for bass far more than even for guitar (except maybe lead guitar).  You're rarely ever going to get a good tab for a bass line, so the bassist has got to know how to string his own line together just from the chord chart.  Scales, arpeggios, and inversions are what makes that work.  Also, listen to Jim Croce, Gordon Lightfoot, and all the Motown and Chicago blues you can find. 

5. If you are an instructor, do you teach the importance of drums playing tightly with the bass and how successful (given today's "Hurry up, teach me!!" attitude) have you been?

Zurf: I don't instruct, except to the degree I'm playing with other folks and we're all helping one another.  In my opinion, the drummer keeps the beat but the bassist is keeper of the groove.  When a drummer or percussionist, rhythm guitarist, and bassist are all tight there's nothing better. 

6. Where are you on Chordie? You play a stringed instrument, and you are a VERY integral part of the overall sound of the band, so please share with us your expertise.

Zurf: I'm right here. 

Thanks,

Bill

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Bassists?

Zurf, WOW. Lots of good info there.
I've been playing guitar for almost 50 years. I hosted an open mic for two years and at the end of the night whoever stuck around got up for a jam . With so many guitar players I decide to get a Bass guitar and a Bass Amp. That's when I learned how to play Bass. With some help from a friend who played and my own stumbling thru it is how I got started. I loved being thrown into a jam and playing by the seat of my pants. I love playing Bass now. And I put it into a lot of my own recordings.
I'm just a 4 string guy , that's plenty for me. I have an Ibanez TR series Bass. It's neck is slimmer than the Fenders and I love it. I'll never get rid of it. A friend got a Gretsch short scale and it didn't sound very good to either of us. So I would recommend staying away from the short scale Basses.
I don't sing much while playing bass but I have done it. For me it's much easier to singalong with a guitar. But don't let it stop you. Everyone is different and it might work well for you.
If you have interest and determination I say go for it.

Re: Bassists?

Z, Holy Carp! I never realized (or if you ever told me - and you may have) you are such an accomplished musician, my friend!!!!! This is amazing information, and I thank you so much for sharing it with me/us. It sure helps me to get to know you better.

About the groove. I don't have it with me on drums, but may I link you to a blues tune, where one of the last bands I played with "found it" and couldn't stop playing/improvising on it? It was so exciting I got chills all over my body, and the crowd didn't want us to stop.

Again, wow!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29GJxkW-hKI

Your Friend

Bill

Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Fender GDO300 Orchestral - a gift from Amy & Jim
Rogue Beatle Bass
Journal: www.wheretobud.blogspot. com

8 (edited by beamer 2016-12-12 22:57:39)

Re: Bassists?

I am just now getting thrown into learning a bit of Bass, I can do the punk and basic rock of just hitting root notes, but Jerome has been handing me the bass and showing me how to play 4ths and of course I know the 5ths.  4ths were a whole new thing for me.

Its a pretty fun AX, we have 2 haning on the wall downstairs.  A good low priced bass that sounds great is Musicians Friends house brand,  Rouge.  Great instruments at amazing prices! this is the one we have and LOOK ITS ON SALE 119! GREAT STEAL OF A DEAL http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/rog … 1?pfm=ac-a

We only have played it through a small Fender Bass practice amp, but it really has some good punch.  Out of the box you will need a set up, but after that,, Have fun!
The other bass is a generic Pbass copy but I picked it and the amp up for a steal. Has great action though!

PS, after listening to the  ZZ Top link, i let it roll into another great bass riff song! it went to Stranglehold by thet Nuge. another great Nuget bass line is this.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqXtPKRfu9U

“Find your own sound.  Dont be a second rateYngwie Malmsteen be a first rate you”

– George Lynch 2013 (Dokken, Lynchmob, KXM, Tooth & Nail etc....)

Re: Bassists?

I've had bass guitars on & off, but never really got into it in a serious way. If I were to tackle another instrument beyond guitar, it would likely be piano, flute, or violin ... not in any particular order.

Re: Bassists?

Jeepers,

no one answered my question - is bass harder or easier to play than a six string acoustic ?

I have never touched a bass, so I have no idea what it's like to play one, although when I fish I usually catch a lot of bass! smile

I would appreciate a bit of input from one of you chordians that know stuff about this  !
Thanks
Jim

Your vision is not limited by what your eye can see, but what your mind can imagine.
Make your life count, and the world will be a better place because you tried.

"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except only the the best." - Henry Van Dyke

Re: Bassists?

Hi Jim

I love playing bass but my playing is very basic mainly chord root, you know if you're playing a G chord you play G note etc. Bassists like McCartney make a kind of melody around the chord while greats like the late Chris Squire play the whole arm and still be in tune.
Now then....is it easier than six string? You still have to concentrate especially when you're new to a piece, playing intricate riffs and singing takes a lot of practice and doesn't always come off right  you also need to know when it's best to play deep notes or higher more mellow notes. It comes with experience.
I once tried to teach a guy to play 6 string, in the end I suggested bass. He ended up playing bass, 12 string and piano!
With bass rhythm is more important than 6 string  I always equate bass with drums. Once those two are in the groove you're nearly there.

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Re: Bassists?

JIM, 
As Phill mentioned, it really depends on how deep you want to go, country bass is different from rock bass, (hence my relating the stuff with Jerome and the 4ths). Rock bass can really just play the root notes in a rhythmic pattern like you would play rhythm guitar (Least thats what I always do) also playing the octave of  the same note (still working on that)
As I mentioned punk its pretty much roots at a faster pace, (Ramones, Sex Pistols) then you have the Clash style of punk which is almost Ska and its more funk soul oriented.  Jazz bass

So really its all about how you desire to play it.  Here are a few links to my favorite bass guys (there are a lot but for pure genious and rock steady  pure love and glory, this is my top 5)
5 Flea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAsjR99Bu3s
4 Steve Harris _ I know this is harder than yo are looking for but just listen to the bass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6D9R38aqj0
3 Billy Sheehan (the Steve Vi of 80s bass)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30YT0cG2EkE
2 Stu Ham - just great! LOL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v11t2Rcb3c  And he gets 2 ,cause man! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnq3ZW6OyTI
1 John Entwhistle  jump to 0:35 on the time line https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wm2SjldKp3Y  (He was pioneer rock bassist!)

There are soooo many more I have not even got close to, but these are the guys I know best. 
One honorable mention to a SOOO Criminally underrated bass player goes to IAN Hill from Judas Priest , Never a flashy guy, always just behind in the mix from the guitars, but he has so much going behind the guitars you really dont catch unless you are looking for it. jump  to 24:23 for victim of change simple yet great, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cXuozPcOKI  (and Halfords voice is not sounding good isolated either, but thats the beauty of of full band too LOL)  This whole show has been isolated.

“Find your own sound.  Dont be a second rateYngwie Malmsteen be a first rate you”

– George Lynch 2013 (Dokken, Lynchmob, KXM, Tooth & Nail etc....)

Re: Bassists?

John (Entwhistle) kept his strings tuned so high and tight I'm surprised that if one of them broke they hadn't put his eye (s) out.

Still,  he was an awesome bassist, wasn't he? "Boris The Spider".....

Bill

Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Fender GDO300 Orchestral - a gift from Amy & Jim
Rogue Beatle Bass
Journal: www.wheretobud.blogspot. com

Re: Bassists?

Thanks guys,  that was great.

Jim

Your vision is not limited by what your eye can see, but what your mind can imagine.
Make your life count, and the world will be a better place because you tried.

"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except only the the best." - Henry Van Dyke

15 (edited by Zurf 2016-12-15 14:00:16)

Re: Bassists?

Jim -

It's hard for me to say which would be easier for you.  It's probably easier to get started with bass.  The way I play guitar, it's all cowboy chords and picking patterns over those.  So that's not too hard.  The way I play bass, it's mostly finding (hopefully) interesting paths between the root notes of the chords the guitar guy is playing.  Be on the root note on 1 & 3.  For country just using the four and five of the chord is good to emphasize the boom-chuck sound.  For country rock like Eagles, then I use a lot of walkups through the scale or against the arpeggiated chord.  For blues, I use a lot of walkups but much faster and I flat the thirds and sometimes the sevenths.   Also for blues, sometimes I'll jump up an octave, back down to the fifth either up or down to the root note and walk to the next root note but flat the third and seventh notes of the key.  For funk a classic pattern is to hold down the root, fifth, and octave with your fretting hand like you're holding down a chord on a guitar, then with your picking hand make a "c" shape between your thumb and fingers, then move your index finger a little towards the middle.  You thump the lowest root with your thumb, pluck the octave hard with your middle and ring fingers in the "c" shape, and pluck the fifth with your index gently.  It gives a thump/pop/boom sound.  I never got very good at this, but I can explain it because I've worked hard at TRYING to get it.   Victor Wootten is the undisputed reigning champion of this approach, but Bootsy Collins also uses it extensively. 

I find it's easier to play bass if you're interested in the steady beat of percussive playing, but easier to play guitar if you're just going to do the boom chuck strumming of country. 

My favorite players, I don't know their names.  However, whoever it was that played with Magic Sam was incredible, the Motown studio bassist was incredible, the Mussel Shoals studio bassist was incredible, and the bassist who played with both Jim Croce and Gordon Lightfoot was amazing.  The latter epitomizes what I think good bass paying ought to be.  It fleshes out the sound of the overall song, gives it a groove, moves the song along, and never takes over.  That is a very difficult balance to get right, and so from that perspective I think bass is harder than six string (at least the kind of easy strumming way I play a six string). 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Bassists?

Don't forget Tal!
https://youtu.be/blp7hPFaIfU

Re: Bassists?

she is awesome

Your vision is not limited by what your eye can see, but what your mind can imagine.
Make your life count, and the world will be a better place because you tried.

"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except only the the best." - Henry Van Dyke

Re: Bassists?

Agreed, I love watching her with Jeff Beck, they always seem to be having a good time and smiling at each other.  I just didnt list her because I had to go with my longest known favorites smile

“Find your own sound.  Dont be a second rateYngwie Malmsteen be a first rate you”

– George Lynch 2013 (Dokken, Lynchmob, KXM, Tooth & Nail etc....)

Re: Bassists?

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r566/JK072652/tshirt_zpsifvunige.jpg


found this shirt online -- couldn't resist putting it in this post.  smile

Your vision is not limited by what your eye can see, but what your mind can imagine.
Make your life count, and the world will be a better place because you tried.

"Use the talents you possess, for the woods would be very silent if no birds sang except only the the best." - Henry Van Dyke

Re: Bassists?

Baldguitardude wrote:

Don't forget Tal!
https://youtu.be/blp7hPFaIfU

Not my favorite style of music, but for, uh... some reason or another..., I don't mind watching videos of her playing.

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude