Topic: Michael Jackson

All news I know is from the papers and some news on TV.
What does America think about Michael Jackson?
I think that due to his "education?", and missing the warmth and protection of a family, he ended up like this. I am even convinced that he did NOT realise what he was doing, being a kid himself. A rich, spoiled kid, even with a quit good character. How much money did he spend to others?
I can't talk or discuss about guilty or not. I just know that parents BEING AWARE of his behaviour, didn't mind to leave their children at his house, to be back years later having a piece of the cake.
How is justice working in the USA: justice for the poor AND justice for the rich?
It fascinates me since long, the law, lawyers, prosecutors. Can some people give me an opinion?

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: Michael Jackson

Just read a press release from Michael Jackson's "Neverland" ranch. It's a bit confusing but it seems to say that Michael Jackson is suffering from a case of food poisoning. It was written that Mr. Jackson apparently became ill after consuming 10 year old weiners................(ba-dat-dat)

Give everything but up.

Re: Michael Jackson

How The legal system works is like this...
                               
                                   supreme court (the top court)
                                          /                         \     
                                         /                            \   
                                State court                State court
                                 /           \                     /         \   
                         local court  local court    local court  local court

Everyone is supposed to be treated the same when it comes to the law, but that doesn't always happen. Sometimes the system gets pretty skrewed up.

Blues is easy to play, but hard to feel
Jimi Hendrix
cool danspr

Re: Michael Jackson

Not to sound synical, but money buys justice (and power, and influence, and favor).  The poor get an overworked public defender who will plead them out.  Someone with money hires an attorney who will fight for them...as long as the money holds out.  And I don't want to get on a soap-box here, but race plays a huge part as to who goes to prison.  The US Black population is about 12%, yet 44% of the prison population is black.  Depending on the state, a black man is between 20 and 57X more likeley to be convicted than a white man (this stat is drug related offenses only).

I think around 30% of our prison population is for drug related offenses--which differs dramaticly from the rest of the world.  We're the only industrialized country that treats drug adiction as criminal, rather than a health concern which exacerbates the problem.

One more thought about money--it's estimated that 12-15,000 people die in this country every year from preventable causes due to lack of adequate health care.  That's like four 911's every year...where is the outrage?  Could it be that the people who die are poor, that they don't have the same voice as someone with wealth that can contribute to someone's reelection campaign?

Anyway, we could go on all day about this.

Re: Michael Jackson

25Frankster wrote:

I think around 30% of our prison population is for drug related offenses--which differs dramaticly from the rest of the world.  We're the only industrialized country that treats drug adiction as criminal, rather than a health concern which exacerbates the problem.

As mentioned by System of a Down in "Prison Song", from the album Toxicity. Definitely worth buying if you like political songs and/or Heavy Metal.

Re: Michael Jackson

I AM PUTTING THIS IN CHORDIE'S CHATCORNER.
If you see a movie, about PRISONERS, is it really THAT bad, like raping, attack other inmates.
Looking to our prisons, they seems to have still a life.
I know, this is a delicate subject, once out of prison, you come from a "facility" where you could be a well respected man, by violence or by wisdom. Sudden you are back on the street, and then: ??? If you were convicted for dealing dope, some of those guys had earned a fortune, and once you have the MONEY SMELL, it must be real hard to find a job.
It is like being "hospitalised for a drinking problem. When I was in hospital, on the same floor, no doors, if I wanted to have a smoke (bad habit I know, but there it is a form of a social life), I had to go 100 meter, to go for a chat/smoke. Most of people on Neurology are there because they got a stroke, so most of them didn't leave their room. I joined the psychiatric side, they had activities organised by nurses, like a quiz, or a card game. I never tell what my occupation is/was, but if they ask me, I am not a liar. These people are also smart enough to see that I am stupid enough, to answer a question. THERE too, you will see an hierarchy. At first some were afraid to loose their position, nut that, easy to solve. I just noticed that those people feel better in the smoking room, more open not difficult if you see your shrink once in a week for 30 minutes.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: Michael Jackson

So I've moved it. There is probably a big difference between the law in USA versus Europe.
There are some points that are really horrible for me.
- THREE STRIKES, I don't know exactly what it is, but is this meaning that when you are convicted 2 times, TALKING about really small illegal things, like being arrested for possession of illegal substances, and you are arrested a third time, you won't get out of prison for the rest of your life???
- Sitting years on death row, even if they committed a murder 1st degree, it is not human to stay for years and years on deathrow.
- OJ Simpsons trial 15 years ago, he was NOT GUILTY, but he had to pay a fortune for the victims.
This one is really strange, you are FREE, NOT GUILTY but you have to pay. I don't care what he did now, but I absolutely don't understand the juridic system.
- I have to take very "heavy" medication, what do I need to cross the border, without problems: ask for an examination, or bringing my own, very strong injections with me, confirmed by BELGIUM Doctors?
- The ammendements, when did they write those?
- What about lawyers, do they start alone, independent, or do they join an existing firm. All this stuff, I just know it from TV and movies, like becoming a partner in a law firm, is this true. What I love is that TV serie, Judge Judy(?) is it really going like that?
Attention: we have still here the NAPOLEON CODEX used for trials.. I still have 1000 questions, but in Belgium to, a lot of inmates are not from here. I am more someone thinking like this: if you do in their country what they do here (Morocco on number 1), they should be punished here like in their country. Their religion forbids them to eat "porc", so they have a special treatment, just try this to ask it there. It is really fascinating to see the difference between Europe and the USA.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: Michael Jackson

gitaardocphil wrote:

- THREE STRIKES, I don't know exactly what it is, but is this meaning that when you are convicted 2 times, TALKING about really small illegal things, like being arrested for possession of illegal substances, and you are arrested a third time, you won't get out of prison for the rest of your life???

It's not really all that.  Three strikes applies to certain felony crimes.  It's usually only applies to violent crimes.  If you rob a liquor store once, they give you some rehabilitation.  Twice, and you go to prison.  Three times and it's pretty much obvious that you're unredeemable, and a hazard to society.

As an American, I like three strikes laws.

- Sitting years on death row, even if they committed a murder 1st degree, it is not human to stay for years and years on deathrow.

This is actually for the bennefit of the accused.  We give the accused every opportunity to appeal the sentence, and give them full access to the court system before carrying out sentence.  We don't just put them there for years because we can.  We put them there, and it takes years for their cases to wind through the courts.   If you're going to kill a guy, you want it to be right.

- OJ Simpsons trial 15 years ago, he was NOT GUILTY, but he had to pay a fortune for the victims.
This one is really strange, you are FREE, NOT GUILTY but you have to pay. I don't care what he did now, but I absolutely don't understand the juridic system.

This was actually two different cases.  The criminal system has a different standard of proof than our civil courts do.  In a criminal case, the standard of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt."  In a civil case, it is "the preponderance of evidence."

So the prosecutor in the criminal case failed to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  When the Goldman's sued OJ in civil court, it was the preponderance of evidence that caused them to come back with the guilty verdict.  It's why he has to pay them money, but doesn't have to go to jail.

- I have to take very "heavy" medication, what do I need to cross the border, without problems: ask for an examination, or bringing my own, very strong injections with me, confirmed by BELGIUM Doctors?

Don't know about that.  I'd check with US customs and border security. 

- The ammendements, when did they write those?

The first 10 were written when they ratified the Constitution.  The latest was ratified in 1992.

We often talk about the Bill of Rights as the 1st 10 amendments.  What most American's don't know is that there were actually 12 amendments proposed in 1789.   The one that was finally ratified in 1992 was one of them.  It only took 200 years!  big_smile

- What about lawyers, do they start alone, independent, or do they join an existing firm. All this stuff, I just know it from TV and movies, like becoming a partner in a law firm, is this true. What I love is that TV serie, Judge Judy(?) is it really going like that?

No.  Lawyers all have to go to law school, and pass the bar exam.  Then they are free to do what they want.  They can open their own practice, work at a firm, or anything.  Generally, this involves capitalizing on other peoples misery.  Lawyers are all scumbags.  Even mine.

Attention: we have still here the NAPOLEON CODEX used for trials.. I still have 1000 questions, but in Belgium to, a lot of inmates are not from here. I am more someone thinking like this: if you do in their country what they do here (Morocco on number 1), they should be punished here like in their country. Their religion forbids them to eat "porc", so they have a special treatment, just try this to ask it there. It is really fascinating to see the difference between Europe and the USA.

Here we have the right to be confronted by our accusers.  We have no trial in absentia, or trial by proxy.  If I am not in the court room, there can be no trial if I am charged.  Anyone charged in America has access to the American legal system, which is based upon the presumption of innocence.  It is the states duty to prove guilt.  The accused is assumed to be innocent of all charges until a verdict is returned.

Someday we'll win this thing...

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