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## #1 2012-04-09 16:26:37

Newbie Dean
Junior Member
From: Northern Wisconsin, USA
Registered: 2012-02-01
Posts: 23

### Modulation

OK...........I'm trying to find a SIMPLE answer to a question about modulation.  I realize modulation is raising or lowering the key the basic song is being played in.  But, what is the basis?  Is the Key of C the base (C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C')?  For example; if I'm playing in C, to modulate up 2 keys takes me to E?  Or if I'm in G, up 2 keys takes me to B?  The only information I've been able to find is very technical in theory.

Keeping It Fun, Dean
'91 Epiphone PR350E
'10 Epiphone EL-00
'11 Taylor GC3

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## #2 2012-04-09 16:42:06

Zurf
Blunt but well meaning moderator
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 2007-06-27
Posts: 5103

### Re: Modulation

I am not aware of that use of the term "modulation."  I call that "transposing."

If you are in the key of C, then if you transpose up to keys, it would be E.  One key would be D.  If you transpose it down one key it would be B.  If you transpose it down two keys, it would A.

Remember that if you are using the major scale, you have a step pattern of whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half.  So if you are using the major scale and transpose up one key, it would be one step (capo two frets higher when using the same chord shapes).  If you transpose up two keys, it would be two steps (capo four frets higher when using the same chord shapes).  But if you transpose up three keys, it would require putting a capo FIVE frets higher when using the same chord shapes.

I hope that did not serve to confuse you.

Modulation, as I understand it, has to do with vibration reproduction out of speakers.  Or, it has to do with the width a string vibrates.  Neither of those meanings relates to the question I understood you to be asking, but it is possible (likely even) that someone, somewhere uses modulation to mean transpose.

This may be a good topic to move to the Theory forum.

- Zurf

"Forced means you're painting a train blue."  - Jets60
"If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome!" - Mekidsmom
"Don't ever apologize for what you have worked hard for." - Pete Benson
Official recipient of B chord amnesty.

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## #3 2012-04-09 16:58:45

bensonp
Honoured Member
From: Hurricane UT
Registered: 2006-03-04
Posts: 3369

### Re: Modulation

Common chord modulation (also known as diatonic pivot chord modulation) moves from the original key to the destination key (usually a closely related key) by way of a chord both keys share. For example, G major and D major share 4 chords in common: G, Bm, D, Em. This can be easily determined by a chart similar to the one below, which compares chord qualities. The I chord in G Major—a G major chord—is also the IV chord in D major, so I in G major and IV in D major are aligned on the chart.

You can see all my video covers on http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000
Call me Pete

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## #4 2012-04-09 17:37:45

Zurf
Blunt but well meaning moderator
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 2007-06-27
Posts: 5103

### Re: Modulation

What chart?

"Forced means you're painting a train blue."  - Jets60
"If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome!" - Mekidsmom
"Don't ever apologize for what you have worked hard for." - Pete Benson
Official recipient of B chord amnesty.

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## #5 2012-04-09 18:06:38

bensonp
Honoured Member
From: Hurricane UT
Registered: 2006-03-04
Posts: 3369

### Re: Modulation

The chart wouldn't copy correctly, so here is the site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulation_(music)

Last edited by bensonp (2012-04-09 18:11:09)

You can see all my video covers on http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000
Call me Pete

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## #6 2012-04-09 18:39:47

Newbie Dean
Junior Member
From: Northern Wisconsin, USA
Registered: 2012-02-01
Posts: 23

### Re: Modulation

So, If the song I'm playing (Good Hearted Woman by Willie Nelson on this site) is in D-A-G and the ending is "chorus up one key to end", I would play a chorus in A-D-E?

Keeping It Fun, Dean
'91 Epiphone PR350E
'10 Epiphone EL-00
'11 Taylor GC3

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## #7 2012-04-09 19:30:07

auxi
Senior Member
From: Arkansas, USA
Registered: 2010-12-20
Posts: 255

### Re: Modulation

Here are a couple of charts like Pete was talking about.

Key of G Major:
I    ii    iii    IV    V    vi    vii
Gmaj    Amin    Bmin    Cmaj    Dmaj    Emin    F#dim

Key of D Major:
I    ii    iii     IV     V      vi      vii
Dmaj    Emin    F#minGmaj Amaj Bmin C#dim

Gmaj is the I chord of Gmaj and the IV chord of Dmaj. Emin is the VI chord of Gmaj and the II chord of Dmaj, and so on.

Dean, I think you would transpose to E, but I'm not any good at music theory. I think Pete had a good definition for Modulation. Modulation is somewhat relative, if I'm correct. It depends on the listener, but there are a few rules to follow.
Modulation is when music changes keys (sometimes a temporary change for a mood change, or a permanent change 'grand finale'). For example, Any Man of Mine, Shania Twaine (got that in my head so I grabbed it) has a key change (grand finale) about two thirds into the song. It goes from Ab to Bb. This is a fairly easy key change because these two keys are closely related in the Circle of Fifths. These keys have a difference of two accidentals (Ab has four flatts and Bb has two flatts. 4-2=2) Ab and Bb have two chords in common, Eb and Bb. These two chords (Eb and Bb) would make good pivit chords. A pivit chord (like Pete explained) is a 'connecting' chord. The last chord before the Modulation. Most modulations last a couple of seconds, but that depends on the speed of the song (and modulation is really for the listener, so it also depends of when the listener notices the change.) Hope that helps, and be sure to not take all I say as Gospel, cause I'm wrong a lot! There are a couple of experts on here though, so they'll probably post in a bit.

"absolutely epic and really really loud" ~Zurf
^
Life right?
Katie :p

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## #8 2012-04-09 19:46:41

Newbie Dean
Junior Member
From: Northern Wisconsin, USA
Registered: 2012-02-01
Posts: 23

### Re: Modulation

The rationale I used is related to the example in the "Wiki" site.  From G, a P5 would be D.  So I counted a P5 from D and got to A.  An A progression is A-D-E.  RIGHT??????

Keeping It Fun, Dean
'91 Epiphone PR350E
'10 Epiphone EL-00
'11 Taylor GC3

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## #9 2012-04-09 21:59:56

auxi
Senior Member
From: Arkansas, USA
Registered: 2010-12-20
Posts: 255

### Re: Modulation

Yes. A typical A progression would be A-D-E. And, yes, now that I think of it, you would transpose to A.

"absolutely epic and really really loud" ~Zurf
^
Life right?
Katie :p

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## #10 2012-04-10 00:21:04

Newbie Dean
Junior Member
From: Northern Wisconsin, USA
Registered: 2012-02-01
Posts: 23

### Re: Modulation

Thanks a BUNCH for your time and input!!  I'm gonna make a copy of "the circle" and post it in my "misic closet" for referrence.

Keeping It Fun, Dean
'91 Epiphone PR350E
'10 Epiphone EL-00
'11 Taylor GC3

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## #11 2012-04-10 02:26:36

auxi
Senior Member
From: Arkansas, USA
Registered: 2010-12-20
Posts: 255

### Re: Modulation

"absolutely epic and really really loud" ~Zurf
^
Life right?
Katie :p

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## #12 2012-04-10 14:16:31

Zurf
Blunt but well meaning moderator
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 2007-06-27
Posts: 5103

### Re: Modulation

Y'all sure do think a lot.  Play something and see if it works.  To borrow from Topdown and Jerome, "If it sounds good, it is good."

"Forced means you're painting a train blue."  - Jets60
"If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome!" - Mekidsmom
"Don't ever apologize for what you have worked hard for." - Pete Benson
Official recipient of B chord amnesty.

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## #13 2012-04-10 19:29:54

auxi
Senior Member
From: Arkansas, USA
Registered: 2010-12-20
Posts: 255

### Re: Modulation

Haha, Zurf! For those of us who aren't so great at hearing music, we gotta go by the books. I can't find a hard core answer for what one key up from D would be. I found an article that said if you're playing in C one key up would be C#. That leads me now to think a key up from D would be Eb. Dunno, still looking.

"absolutely epic and really really loud" ~Zurf
^
Life right?
Katie :p

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## #14 2012-04-10 19:59:39

Zurf
Blunt but well meaning moderator
From: Virginia, USA
Registered: 2007-06-27
Posts: 5103

### Re: Modulation

E.

One key up from D is E.  In Good Hearted Woman, if you are playing A - A7 - E - D as the chords, move the final chorus up to B7 (no B, it's evil), A, and E.

You're psyching yourself out.

If I get the chance, I'll record it and shout out the chords I'm using.  I'll have to e-mail it to you, or whoever else wants it, as I don't have a Youtube account.   Or pop onto one of the Skype jams and I'll play the song.

- Zurf

"Forced means you're painting a train blue."  - Jets60
"If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome!" - Mekidsmom
"Don't ever apologize for what you have worked hard for." - Pete Benson
Official recipient of B chord amnesty.

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## #15 2012-04-10 20:17:00

Newbie Dean
Junior Member
From: Northern Wisconsin, USA
Registered: 2012-02-01
Posts: 23

### Re: Modulation

I'll have to give it a try this afternoon to see what it "sounds" like to a "newbie".

Keeping It Fun, Dean
'91 Epiphone PR350E
'10 Epiphone EL-00
'11 Taylor GC3

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## #16 2012-04-10 21:36:34

auxi
Senior Member
From: Arkansas, USA
Registered: 2010-12-20
Posts: 255

### Re: Modulation

Alright then. I should have stuck with my first answer. LOL. Glad to know for sure now. Thanks Zurf. Good luck Dean.

"absolutely epic and really really loud" ~Zurf
^
Life right?
Katie :p

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