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#1 2013-01-20 22:59:23

Phill Williams
THE MODERATE MODERATOR
From: The Land Of Song
Registered: 2007-12-10
Posts: 2436
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Money & Guns

I've read and seen on TV so much lately about shootings; gangs and drive by's not to mention all the killings in the middle east. So in a fit of angst I wrote this down.

Money & Guns (one begets the other)

Nothing good can ever come of a gun.
It's not pretty
It's not friendly
It doesn't make love or life.

It doesn't heal or soothe
The fools say "it's not the gun that's evil
" It's the hand behind the gun;
That holds it
That loves it
Fires it
Desires it...

But if it didn't sit there
If it hadn't been made
If it didn't have the capacity to maim and kill
Then the weak, stupid, murderous men
Wouldn't pick it up,
Aim at you
Squeeze the trigger
And shoot you down.

No different to swatting a fly
That landed on your cup
The Bible says that "money is the root of all evil"
But nothing gets made unless there's money to be made
Lots of money to be made.
It's easy to say " I didn't kill anyone, I just made the gun."

Nothing good can ever come from money or a gun.


There are two "L's" in Phill

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#2 2013-01-20 23:03:45

Phill Williams
THE MODERATE MODERATOR
From: The Land Of Song
Registered: 2007-12-10
Posts: 2436
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Re: Money & Guns

It doesn't rhyme cos I don't want it to rhyme. I feel this is too serious to frivolise it by rhyming. Please give your thoughts...and GIVE PEACE A CHANCE


There are two "L's" in Phill

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#3 2013-01-20 23:31:59

bensonp
Honoured Member
From: Hurricane UT
Registered: 2006-03-04
Posts: 3729

Re: Money & Guns

I like it Phil, but I'm afraid you'll get a lot of grief from many on your point of view. NRA folks seem to feel threatened over the smallest details.


You can see all my video covers on http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

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#4 2013-01-21 02:33:59

dino48
Honoured Member
From: los banos,california
Registered: 2007-04-06
Posts: 4487

Re: Money & Guns

I like my guns,if anyone threatens me or my home,I would use them too protect myself. It is in our constituion that we have the right too bear arms ,I am also a member of the NRA. I like too hunt.

Last edited by dino48 (2013-01-21 03:08:31)


my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman.

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#5 2013-01-21 09:36:39

TwangTown
Senior Member
From: Dunedin, New Zealand
Registered: 2007-01-01
Posts: 187

Re: Money & Guns

As a non American, I can look dispassionately at this tragic debate. I love the poem by the way. In New Zealand we have the kind of gun control Obama can only dream of. Licensing is very strict, illegal ownership, and possession of firearms is severely dealt with by the courts.  police are NOT armed except in emergencies. Our scenario does NOT stop the odd nutcase  who decides to kill senselessly. But, the level of gun violence is much lower then the USA and by and large we feel very safe in our country. We can do better however, there are countries with less gun violence then NZ. All i can say is, the simple truth is - the more guns there are the more likely innocent folk will suffer for it, despite best intentions by many. Now- off my soapbox (at the risk of this post becoming too political)...but Phil started it with his wonferful poem, congratulations on your courage in writng it.


"War never determines who is right , only who is left"
"Democracy is the right to protest about  the lack of it!"

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#6 2013-01-21 14:52:03

mekidsmom
The Chick Moderator
From: NY
Registered: 2009-08-26
Posts: 2958
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Re: Money & Guns

Thank you Phil!  Dino, I respect your feelings and opinion.  TwangTown, thank you also for your viewpoint from NZ.

I enjoy eating venison... but see no use in weapons that aren't meant to hunt with, except perhaps for a pistol properly licensed and said licencee properly background checked.  Beyond that, I don't understand the whole right to be a well armed militia (IMHO, that's what the police and military is for... although I've been blasted for my opinion on that matter). 

Don't want to debate, just stating my opinion as Dino did. 

One thing I know we can all agree on, senseless killings are sad and terrible and shouldn't be happening.  Bless their families.


Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

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#7 2013-01-21 15:00:03

tommydone
Member
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 52

Re: Money & Guns

the well armed mitlitia as as stated in the constitution is intended to defend ourselves AGAINST those same police and military designed to protect us . The colonists saw first hand how their own Government turned on them and wanted to be able to prevent that happeneing to the public in the future. When EVERY so called assault weapon is destroyed , I will gladly give mine up. As long as there is one other person out there with an AR-15 , I am gonna keep mine.

As Twangtown stated nothing can stop a lunatic from taking lives no matter how many laws you pass. during 9-11 the planes were taken over with box cutters , not guns. I ask where was the outcry to ban knives then?

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#8 2013-01-21 20:20:46

arkady
ambient moderator
From: England
Registered: 2006-11-23
Posts: 1910
Website

Re: Money & Guns

I agree Phill..
Well all I know is as a Uk resident myself and my family are less lightly to be shot than a family living in a society where guns are freely available.
Less guns less shot people simple really.
Why is there even a debate on the subject it strikes me as pointless the facts are a no brainer. More guns equal more shot and dead people per population.
If that's what the people really want then they have to live with the consequences.
ark

Last edited by arkady (2013-01-22 08:56:32)

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#9 2013-01-21 20:56:51

Phill Williams
THE MODERATE MODERATOR
From: The Land Of Song
Registered: 2007-12-10
Posts: 2436
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Re: Money & Guns

there are several good points brought up here;

1) the guy next door has a gun, so if he loses the plot i can defend my-self. maybe he's thinking the same thing?

2) human kind has killed each other since we came down from the trees. all animals do this even cows that eat grass, lets face it, grass lives, it grows, it pro-creates so if a cow can eat grass to the roots so that it can no longer grow isn't that the same thing? remember, we mow our lawns or dig-up fields to build houses on, there are no innocents!

3) if you have a gun and i have a gun and we get into a real bad argument we may trade blows. if you get the better of me, i might well run into my house get the gun and shoot you down in my fear and temper. i'm still holding the gun when your family come out with your gun and shoot me down.
by tommydone's reasoning, his family then has to protect it self from the SWAT team that will turn up. but these are well trained marksmen that may kill your whole family. this is how wars began in prehistory. question; why would you need to defend yourselves against your own police and military. the USA is supposed to be the most enlightened country in the world. it seems it is also the most suspicious of it's neighbours and itself. we all watch American TV programmes, which is why the most of the rest of the world hate guns and what they stand for.

4) as twangtown, and my friend arkady point out, our police don't carry guns. you cannot buy a gun over the counter. the police only carry guns when they are called to an armed incident (or since 9/11) at airports. if you want to buy a gun, you have to have a damn good reason, pass mental and environmental checks, be a farmer and/or be a member of a gun club, which means you cannot take the gun from that club. and even with a licence, you have to renew it every year (i think) or so.

i am by no means saying that our system is any better or safer than the US, but violence breeds violence. once upon a time, we Europeans carried guns and swords, some countries police still carry guns, but i think (AND THIS IS JUST MY OPINION) guns breed fear, fear that the guy next to you has a gun and if you don't shoot him, he will shoot you. ergo; NOTHING GOOD CAN EVER COME OF A GUN.


There are two "L's" in Phill

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#10 2013-01-21 23:00:59

tommydone
Member
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 52

Re: Money & Guns

in 1993 I wa shot in the stomach by a scumbag with an illeagle gun, Luckily I was carrying and I was able to defend myself , I hit him 11 times with .40 caliber S&W bullets fired from my Glock . I was hit once in the stomach with a .22 caliber bullet . I was 22 years old and had to wear a colostomy bage for 7 months as the bullet ruptured my intestine. If I had not been carrying and able to defend myself I wouldnt be here typing this. The scumbag lived and was sentenced to prison where he still is to this day.

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#11 2013-01-21 23:37:10

Phill Williams
THE MODERATE MODERATOR
From: The Land Of Song
Registered: 2007-12-10
Posts: 2436
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Re: Money & Guns

this kind of proves my point, if guns were not easily available, because they are produced by the thousands for sale not just to good law abiding citizens, but also for terrorists and murderers. there is a lot of money made selling guns. the arms manufacturers are never held responsible for the carnage their weapons create. if the cretin that shot you had not been able to buy a weapon because it had not been mass produced then somehow got onto the black market, you might not have been shot, you wouldn't have needed to shoot the guy. then your family and his would not have been worrying about you in the emergency room. it could have been worse. you or he could have died. how would you feel about taking the life of another person? in the UK you might also have been up for prosecution. carrying a deadly weapon. causing actual bodily harm, etc. it may sound stupid and in some cases it is. but the law is there to protect everyone. what if you'd missed and hit an innocent bystander?

i'm sorry, but i cant get over the fact that you shot him 11 times? i thought guns only had 6 shots?

if he had known you were carrying your "glock" i wonder if he would have attacked you? i obviously dont know the circumstances of the attack, day/night, on the street at home, seeing as you were carrying a gun, maybe you should also have been wearing a bullet proof vest?

your story has not changed my mind. GUNS KILL


There are two "L's" in Phill

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#12 2013-01-22 01:17:33

tommydone
Member
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 52

Re: Money & Guns

a revolver has 11 shots , semi automatics carry 10 in the clip and 1 in the chamber. yes guns kill as do knives and cars. it was broad daylight and it was a case of road rage . you asked how I would feel if I had killed him - thats what I was trying to do as he was trying to kill me. I had a concealed carry permit, my gun was registered to me and everything was legal on my end. I would have been prosecuted in the UK for defending myself ? remind me to NEVER go there. Guns are here and you will never get them off the street. all the laws in the world would not have kept that scumbag from getting a gun . you are right though , if I had not been carrying ,my family wouldnt have been worrying about me in the emergency room , they would have been making funeral arrangements.

I dont understand why you think that gun manufacturers should be held responsible because someone mis used their weapon? should drug companies be held responsible for drug addicts ? or beer makers be made accountable for alcoholics , both of which kill more people than guns every year. Or the king - should tobacco farmers be held responsible for every person that dies from lung cancer ?

God forbid I did miss and hit an innocent bystander would have been his fault for instituting the confrontation

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#13 2013-01-22 01:49:51

TwangTown
Senior Member
From: Dunedin, New Zealand
Registered: 2007-01-01
Posts: 187

Re: Money & Guns

It seems to me that the US's problem now is not so much how to regulate gun sale and ownership, but how to deal with the 300 million weapons that are already out there, many in the hands of unidentified lunatics who have no respect for life. That is what breeds the fear that permeates American society.


"War never determines who is right , only who is left"
"Democracy is the right to protest about  the lack of it!"

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#14 2013-01-22 13:31:09

tommydone
Member
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 52

Re: Money & Guns

many ? if it were many there would be way mor gun deaths. More people die of lung cancer so it should be the millions of lunatics wielding a cigarette that have no respect for life.

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#15 2013-01-22 14:17:24

whitewater55
Senior Member
Registered: 2011-01-09
Posts: 242

Re: Money & Guns

Great write, Phil.

As a Canadian, living near the border (right across from Detroit, MI), and married to an American from Florida, perhaps my perspective is a little different.

I understand and accept the American right to bear arms, and understand the history behind it.

I also understand that the "militia" clause of the constitution was written at a time when the U.S. population was much, much smaller. It was written at a time when people, for the most part, respected each other and actually watched out for each other. That, sadly, is no more.

The writers of the constitution certainly had no vision of what the U.S. is today. They certainly didn't forsee the "Michigan Militia" and others, blowing up government buildings and killing so many with so little justification or rationality.

It is my belief that Americans much do some soul-searching, and forget the rhetoric. They must decide what kind of country they want to live in; one where there are over 300 million deadly weapons in circulation, where random acts of insanity can destroy communities, where any nutjob with a cause, rational or crazy, can grab a gun and make a name for themselves, or a country where peace and security are paramount virtues.

Do I have a solution? No, not really. With that many weapons out there, the genie is long out of the bottle, and won't be pushed back in.

The best I can think is that all owners of weapons should think seriously about the security of those weapons, about their accessability to others and to the actual reasons they have for owning them. The woman who owned the guns that caused the mayhem in Connecticut certainly did not forsee their final usage. She paid the price in full.

Solutions? Lockups or gunsafes. Trigger locks. Separate storage of weapons, ammunition and breach blocks, in separate safes. Make weapons safety the culture, not the politics of gun ownership.

Assault weapons, pistols, short-barrel pump shotguns are not hunting weapons, These weapons are designed to maim and kill fellow humans. We store paint and battery acid with more regulation than we store weapons and ammunition. It's time to rethink the culture of responsible gun ownership. Start with regulating the storage and security of the weapons already out there. Small steps, before any actual weapons bans, which, given the number of weapons already in circulation, will do nothing to curb the violence.

My .02, which, I suppose, is what it's worth.
Randy


Hank's prosepctive gutiar player said: "Mr Williams, I'm not sure I can play for you, the onliest chords I know are C D & G"
Hank repleis, after a short pause: "Well, what else is there?"

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#16 2013-01-22 20:24:56

Phill Williams
THE MODERATE MODERATOR
From: The Land Of Song
Registered: 2007-12-10
Posts: 2436
Website

Re: Money & Guns

whitewater55, nicely put.

FYI, i dont smoke but i've heard smokers use very much the same argument, "alcohol kills more people than smoking" which is probably true, but then you never hear of passive drinking as a cause of lung cancer in non-drinkers!!!

i guess i know how you feel, if the government turned round and banned loud live music, because it destroys the internal organs, i would want proof and fight against 10 watt amps


There are two "L's" in Phill

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#17 2013-02-04 09:34:20

Hudson-Billy
Junior Member
Registered: 2013-02-01
Posts: 2

Re: Money & Guns

Violence is beginning to be an "in" thing for the youth because of what they are seeing online. This is so up to date and I am sure everyone can relate to this. Let's all promote PEACE!


"To desire is to obtain; to aspire is to achieve."              spam removed by moderator. please do not advertise unless you have the permission of the site owner

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