• From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
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Topic: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

UBER newbie here!  I was working on learning some chords last night and my son brought out his guitar and his "baby book".  It's from First Act... basically for little kids to learn guitar.  He started asking WHY I was doing what I was doing.  So I explained to him the chord I was attempting to play was a G... and of course he again said, WHY?  I showed him the chord chart from Chordie and he showed me what was in HIS kids book.  It's just a simple 3rd fret 1st string ... just strum the bottom three strings.  I could clearly hear that it's a G with the bass notes left out... and his C Chord is also a simple one string fretted and bass notes left out as well.  Soooo here's the question.  Is it advisable to start out with his "baby chords" while my fingers are toughening up and I can feel like I've actually been able to make a decent sound come out of the guitar???  OR... am I hurting myself more in the long run by not learning the chord "properly"???

Also... I'm using my husband's guitar... I feel very awkward like the body is wayyyy too big for me, to the point that holding it like a classical guitar is actually far more comfortable.  I can't get myelf around the guitar to see the fretboard while holding it.  It feels like the strings are too close together up on the neck, but stretching to reach some of these chords is difficult (I guess I have little FAT fingers... I don't know... although also I still need to cut my nails and I think that'll help a lot).  I know I need to go to the muisc store and try some guitars out and get one that is just for me... I think I like the idea of nylon strings, although I really am not going to play classical style music... I just want to strum out some campfire songs and such (of course I'd LOVE to play classical music, but that'd be possible maybe in a few YEARS... there's a LOT to learn there)... can you put nylon strings on an acousitc steel string guitar? 

Thanks everyone for your comments in advance!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • Registered: 2007-03-24
  • Posts: 1,108

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Well, I'd advise trying the proper chord forms as much as your hands can stand. You will regret not learnign all the proper forms...of course, for just enjoyment, by all means use the "baby" chords to play songs etc. Try to split your time between practice and fun. If you have an hour a day, use 1/2 for practice and 1/2 for playing. Eventually practice and playing will become the same activity.
As far as a comfortable guitar goes, get the most comfortable one you can, that'll help. I don't recommend putting nylon strings on a steel string but I have never tried it.

I used to be disgusted; now I try to be amused.
Elvis Costello
  • From: Tooele Ut
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

You can certainly do it anyway you are comfortable with that makes basic music, but I also wouldn't advise you to start with the shortcuts because it will be very hard to undo later on.  I use short cuts with B and Bm and they sound good with my singing, but I never try to learn the right way because I have gotten too used to doing it the wrong way.  Try to push yourself up front and hang in there.  With practice, it will all become easier before you know it.  And do cut your nails.  If I don't cut mine regularly it makes it harder to play without really noticing it.  When I cut them, it is very noticeable.  Dolly Parton plays with very long nails and I never did quite figure out how she holds down a chord with them, but I am sure it would take a lot of extra practice to get that down correctly.  Just another obstacle in your way while learning.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.
  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

geoaguiar... thank you for the suggestion!  I think I will practice with both the proper form and the "baby" chord similarly to how you suggested, at least until I can manage to get that full chord sounding good!

bensonp... I checked out Dolly... and a lot of the info online says that she probably tunes her guitar in a different key making the chords she has to play for specific songs much easier to fret (or barre) to play them with those nails.  It's something worth looking into down the road (and I'm so tempted to just do it now and keep my nails) but for now since most of the FREE info available for beginners is with a standard tuning, I guess it's best to just cut my nails and learn the traditional way first!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • upyerkilt
  • upyerkilt
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

I still cheat wit hsome chords B,Bm, F, C#m, even A and Gm and probably a few more.
I have been playing for roughly 18 years and I still get away with it.

It is maybe best to try and do the chords properly but not essential.

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
  • From: Wales
  • Registered: 2009-01-09
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

I do the cheat F if I'm playing a song which requires a C to F in quick succession like Sloop John B.  I just stay away from B's period!

Epiphone EJ200  -  Epiphone SG400  -  Fender Strat Blacktop.
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  • From: Tooele Ut
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 4,049

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

upyerkilt wrote:

I still cheat wit hsome chords B,Bm, F, C#m, even A and Gm and probably a few more.
I have been playing for roughly 18 years and I still get away with it.

It is maybe best to try and do the chords properly but not essential.

Ken

Yep, same as me.  I've been doing it so long, it's hard to change, even if I tried.  They sound fine to me.  Whatever gets you through the night, upyerkilt.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.
  • From: Madeira Beach, Florida
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 3,311

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Before I could do a proper full barre chord, I used the cheater F and avoided the B like the swine flu. A few fingerings I would learn differently if I were just beginning are:

G chord -  use fingers 1,2 and 4 instead of 1,2,&3 as most are taught. 1,2,4 fingering makes it much easier to transition and walk from a G to a C chord.

E chord - Try to learn your E chord with fingers 2,3 & 4 (instead of 1,2,3). It will make it much easier when you begin to form E shaped barre chords.

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!
  • arkady
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Hi mekidsmom
Welcome to Chordie.
When my wife started to learn to play the guitar I got her a smallish nylon strung Classical shaped guitar. There was noway she had the strength or finger toughness for a steel strung acoustic. The long nails had to go and I told her to expect some pain in the process of learning both mental and a little physical  smile
I don't like the word cheating where learning chords are concerned. All the best players "cheat" for speed and necessity.
In a perfect world of learning the guitar I would say that learning a full chord is the proper way to go.. But depending on what you want to achieve in the long run ie just strumming a few chords and singing along then to learn the shorten version of a chord is fine and a quicker way of getting enjoyment out of your playing.
Get a guitar that "You" are comfortable with practice as much as you can and just enjoy guitar learning journey.
You will soon be bang out some "Bach" tunes.. smile
ark

10 Reply by wlbaye (edited by wlbaye 2009-08-30 13:42:45)

  • wlbaye
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  • From: Black Hills So Dak
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Jeff a while back I was at our local music store and playin some tunes and a young fella that gives lessons and is a part time instructor at the college, sat down and played with me. He asked me why and what form of f chord I use. I said I use both the cheater F and barre F but mostly the cheater because I like to do hammerons while doing the cheater. He said after all the years he had been playin he has started  using the cheater F for the same reasons and he is one of the best players I have played with.

Another argument I have been in is how to form a G chord, I use my pinky and you don't, whose correct ? You are if you are at a bluegrass festival. I have been watching and I would bet at least 90 percent are using 1 2 & 3 fingers. One big reason in bluegrass the G chord is played 320033   playing it your way frees up the little finger to play the B string 3rd fret. They also tell me you are using your strongest fingers for hammerons and pulloffs this way.. I have begun playing it both ways. Then I can sit on the fence when others argue smile

topdown wrote:

Before I could do a proper full barre chord, I used the cheater F and avoided the B like the swine flu. A few fingerings I would learn differently if I were just beginning are:

G chord -  use fingers 1,2 and 4 instead of 1,2,&3 as most are taught. 1,2,4 fingering makes it much easier to transition and walk from a G to a C chord.

E chord - Try to learn your E chord with fingers 2,3 & 4 (instead of 1,2,3). It will make it much easier when you begin to form E shaped barre chords.

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Well guys, you'll be happy to know that I filed my nails down quite a bit... I just can't bring myself to totally cut them (always been rather proud of my natural long nails, but I'll spare you guys that drama)... but it's working very well with the much shorter nails!  I'm really interested in everything you're all talking about .. as far as making FUTURE chords easier by learning basic formations slightly different from the start.  There really is a LOT to the guitar that a beginner doesn't have a CLUE about while just trying to learn a few beginner chords.  smile  In the end... It sounds like after we learn the beginner basic chords, a style will be developed based upon what you're playing most... and regardless... these basic formations are going to change in some way shape or form based on that style that is developed.  Even if you know every chord... you can always tune the guitar to a completely different than traditional tuning and then there's even MORE that can be learned.  So complicated that I LOVE it!  Now, if only my fingers would toughen up faster so I can get to that point!  I can see how many would quit at this point due to a lack of patience... but I'm just excited to know that there's soooo much more to the guitar than I ever imagined.  Learning truly could be a life long venture!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • zguitar
  • Don't call me Sir
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  • From: Mentone, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-01-10
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Learning songs keeps it interesting for me. I would have given up long ago if I were just learning scales and theory. I know that stuff has it's place but that place is not with me. At this point I just want to be able to play some songs. I learn different things as I go. I have gone back to my first few songs and added things to them that I have just learned but couldn't do before.  The hardest part for me is strumming patterns. Chords are difficult in their own right (still working on the F,Bm,F#m) , but chords alone don't make a song.  I wish everyone would post strum patterns along with the chords. It would make life so much easier!





Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!

13 Reply by mekidsmom (edited by mekidsmom 2009-09-07 16:42:44)

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Well... I thought I was going to have to wait till Christmas, but lucky me my anniversary came first (well, it's this coming weekend) and the hubster decided to get me a guitar as a gift!   WHOO HOO!  So, we went out to a couple places and I played with a few guitars... and found one that fit me just perfectly!  It has a thinner body than all the others I tried and the best part was I liked the sound better too (plus it's a little touch of pretty in my eyes)!  WONDERFUL!  OH... and even better than that... since I've been practicing on my hubby's steel string and built up a little toughness in my fingers, playing my new nylon strings is EASY on my girlie hands!

Anyhow... I just wanted to share my new baby with you guys... here she is:

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs277.snc1/10433_1242877950702_1191936679_30740556_6096351_n.jpg
It's an Ibanez 3/4 classical ... I did of course really like the $800 guitars that fit me too... but this was a bit more in our price range!  LOL!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • From: Madeira Beach, Florida
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 3,311

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Happy NGD (new guitar day) mekidsmom!

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!
  • Registered: 2007-03-24
  • Posts: 1,108

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Happy NGD..play the crap out of it.

I used to be disgusted; now I try to be amused.
Elvis Costello
  • arkady
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Hi mekidsmom
Well done for getting a guitar that's right for you.
Have fun may all your walls be low smile
ark

  • Registered: 2007-04-03
  • Posts: 3,489

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Hi Mekidsmom,

Do yourself the biggest favour and cut your nails short, short. Vanity stopped me also cutting mine for to many years.

Nature gave me the most beautiful nails.  I was surrounded by the best guitar players in my time, i also
loved the guitar, but wouldn't cut the darn nails to learn properly. I left it far to late much to my regret. Believe me short nails is needed to get the best sound  from your new baby. In this day and age we have sticky nails for functions and Glam if needs be. I also only cut my left hand nails, I keep the right hand  long for picking.

Good Luck

Lifes to short to be to be putting holes in doughnuts or worrying about nails. lol

Slán

Old Doll.

Why Blend in with the Crowd ? When you were made to stand out !
  • Zurf
  • Zurf
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Congratulations on the new guitar.  I darned near bought two of them the other night, but if I had my wife would make sure I had a new address.  It would be: "the shed behind 123 Our Street". 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Thank you very much everyone! 

Old Doll... I too was blessed with beautiful natural nails.  Being a right handed person, it's the left hand that has the more beautiful nails too of course.  I'm also a cosmetologist (hair, nails, skin is my profession!)... but alas... I did file the crap out of my left hand nails last night.  It did make a HUGE difference in my ability to play the few chords I know too.  So I will take the advise and keep them short... and next time I have to go to a wedding I'll put on fakes.  At least I do know how to do that myself!  I'm glad you're here.  I've wanted to rant about my nails!  LOL!  I know the guys don't "get it"!  Anyhow... my husband asked why I filed them... why not just CUT them.   OHHH... nooooo!!!  Nail clippers haven't been near my nails since I was very little (except on the giving end)!  Sacrificing a little vanity in the name of music... I can handle this... and I just keep telling myself that.  Although, perhaps a nice french manicure might make them look a "little" nicer!

So... I'm doing good.  Got A, D, E, G, C, Em, Am, Dm, A7, Dsus down... well... I know them anyhow.  So having a blast learning, and totally loving my guitar.  I'm playing the crud out of it... already have a string starting to fray a bit... I think mostly cuz I'm fretting them a bit too hard after using my husband's steel string for a bit there.  It's all good.

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • Zurf
  • Zurf
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Well done Mekidsmom.  Those chords will carry you a far distance. 

As far as your frayed string, that's a good thing.  It means you're playing.  For some reason my classical and the folk/classical (a folk cutaway style guitar with nylon strings) my daughter has both blow the D string fairly often.  It may be worth your while to have a few spare D strings in your kit.  I'd like to find one of those folk/classical guitars in a full size.  But if I got all the guitars I'd like, my house would be nothing but guitars.  I guess maybe I'd just better learn to play the one (OK, three not counting the basses) I've got. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

It's actually my G string that's fraying already... of course I do play D and A more than anything else as I was learning "leaving on a jet plane" before anything else... and practicing back and forth between those two chords in the beginning from switching from my hubby's to mine.  Makes sense.  We did get me an extra set of strings with the guitar... so... I'm ready in case.  Good to know about the D string tho... I'll make sure to keep my eye on it as well.

I think my husband would like one more like mine ... he keeps stealing it from me when I put it down for a second!  I must say the local shops didn't have too many classical styles available... and far less in full size.  Seems more of a popular "beginner" guitar style, and therefore many more small options out there.  I'm personally not opposed to that, being a small person!  Good luck finding one you like... and having some cash and a room to store it in with the others!  wink

On the other hand, now that you mentioned it... I think my father might have one ... hmmm ... if he's not going to play it ... hmmm ... might be worth talking to him about ... a nice birthday present for the hubster if Dad wants to get rid of it!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • Zurf
  • Zurf
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Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

That's the spirit!  Reckless accumulation of musical instruments is to everyone's advantage.  I can't even remember how many guitars I've accumulated and given away over the years.  It's quite a few. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • From: Tooele Ut
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 4,049

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

You know, I've had about 8 or 9 guitars in my life and I've always given the old one to some youngster wanting to learn.  The last few years, though, I have been keeping two on hand just for shucks and grins.  Now if I get a new one, I keep the two newest and give away the third one.  Anywhere I can help bring music into someones life.  As for a frayed G string, whoa!!  I'd post a pic of me playing in a frayed G string, but I would probably be banned.  smile

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.
  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Ok, and if I posted a pic of ME playing in a frayed G string... 

http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs277.snc1/10433_1250670865520_1191936679_30765645_6230218_n.jpg

We might get a few more members if it was bensonp's version, but that's another whole website isn't it?  Ahhh... this is why I love it here!

btw... I WAS actually drinking from the big kid cup, I promise!  Of course, if the kids have been too they might have enjoyed my playing a little more!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • From: Tooele Ut
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 4,049

Re: Cheating with chords? Newbie guitar choice?

Yeah, right.  A good guitar and a sippy cup.  It doesn't get better than that

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.