Topic: Strings too far from neck?
I am fairly new to playin guitar trying to teach myself. I have a cheapo acoustic for now and the strings are too far off the neck i have trouble playing bar chords becasue of this. How can i fix it?
- papaguitar
- Senior Member
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Re: Strings too far from neck?
Hey Craig58, seriously think about upgrading to a better playing guitar. Maybe one that's not necessarily pretty or scratch free etc., but one that you can play more easily. If you keep at this and have the necessary desire you will upgrade anyway. Be creative in your search for another. Trust me- you'll be glad you did. Another option is to have it looked at professionally and they can determine whether it is feasable to adjust the action. There's only so much that can be done inexpensively to the cheaper models. Hope this helps, I'm sure other Chordians will also help with advice. Good luck and welcome to Chordie! Mike
Our intuitions serve us well
Re: Strings too far from neck?
Check out this thread http://www.chordie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=14133 I am a complete noobee myself and I'm working on getting my $100 guitar set up myself.
tonyespo / 63 year old NEWBEE
I better learn to play fast, I'm already an old fart.
I better learn to play fast, I'm already an old fart.
4 2010-05-23 17:06:37 (edited by mercer 2010-05-24 11:41:48)
Re: Strings too far from neck?
Hi Craig, make sure the neck is straight,then measure the distance at the 12th fret, should be about 3/16ths, if it isn't slacken the strings and remove the saddle, take off about 1 or 2 mm by rubbing against sandpaper on a flat surface. Only remove small amounts at any one time other wise you endup with rattles and buzzes. If you have not done anything like this before leave to some who has! all the best John. P.S you can always sell a good guitar, but you can't sell a bad one!
Re: Strings too far from neck?
This is known as the 'action' of the guitar - in your case, it has a high action. There's normally a truss rod that runs down the neck, which can be turned via an allen key to lower the action. you can normally access it at the top of the neck, by the head of the guitar
- Roger Guppy
- The Laid Back Moderator
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Re: Strings too far from neck?
chrisbarrett87 wrote:
This is known as the 'action' of the guitar - in your case, it has a high action. There's normally a truss rod that runs down the neck, which can be turned via an allen key to lower the action. you can normally access it at the top of the neck, by the head of the guitar
The truss rod is not used to lower the action. It is used to straighted a warped neck (OK straightening the neck will have a effect on the action if the neck is warped).
The action is adjusted at the bridge and the nut.
Roger
"Do, or do not; there is no try"
Re: Strings too far from neck?
Roger has it right. I just had my guitar worked on last week. First he loosened the truss rod bcuz the neck had a little too much bow to it. The he filed the nut a little bit and then shaved off some of the bridge. Truss rod is not for lowering action.
Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!
- Guitarpix
- Underwater Firefighter
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Re: Strings too far from neck?
zguitar wrote:
Roger has it right. I just had my guitar worked on last week. First he loosened the truss rod bcuz the neck had a little too much bow to it. The he filed the nut a little bit and then shaved off some of the bridge. Truss rod is not for lowering action.
To remove bow he would have tightened it 
The truss rod runs from the head to the heel (pretty much) and as you tighten it it pulls the head back to counteract the forward pull of the strings. Loosening it allows the strings to pull it further forward adding relief or bow....
[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b] [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]
[/color][/b] [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]
Re: Strings too far from neck?
First... If you are having trouble with barre chords near the nut, it's likely the nut that needs adjusting rather than the saddle.
Both need to be optimized.
Best thing to do is to take the instrument to a qualified repairman; an "action job" should not be too expensive.
Lots cheaper than the "just buy a new guitar" advice...
If you are determined to do the work yourself, PLEASE go to the excellent Frets.com page to see what's involved:
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/pagelist.html#Musician
Check the "Instrument Setup" section.
10 2010-07-15 00:42:05 (edited by tandm3 2010-07-15 00:42:56)
Re: Strings too far from neck?
Sorry, I have a somewhat different idea about the whole truss rod / action lowering concept. I have three acoustics that all had high action when purchased. They all had bowed necks and the action was remedied with the truss rod. Maybe I'm the exception, but I've never filed a nut or bridge to lower the action on an acoustic. Please check to make sure your neck is straight before breaking out the sanding blocks.
Note: If you're changing string gages, heavier, lighter, whatever, use the truss rod to adjust for the differences in string tension. Make small adjustments ie: 1/8th turn or 1/4 turn at the most. Let the neck rest for a while (overnight maybe) before you make your final determination. As you are making adjustments to the truss rod, play every string on every fret that you intend to reach. If you've got buzzing anywhere, you've gone too far. If you've got buzzing on the high side or the low side, then your neck might be twisted, or your bridge or nut need adjustment. Best to take it to pro at this point.
Now available in 5G !
- Roger Guppy
- The Laid Back Moderator
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Re: Strings too far from neck?
Hi tandm3,
You are right in what you are saying but the way you put it could be misleading to some.
tadm3 wrote:
Note: If you're changing string gages, heavier, lighter, whatever, use the truss rod to adjust for the differences in string tension.
The truss rod is only ever used to straighten the neck and for no other reason. Changing the string gauge can induce a bend in the neck which would need truss rod adjustment, but if there is no bend leave it well alone. I have seen several guitars that have been ruined with a snapped truss rod through someone using it as an action adjuster.
Roger
"Do, or do not; there is no try"
Re: Strings too far from neck?
Roger,
I don't want to be misleading. Yes, there are serious dangers involved in truss rod adjustment. The person doing the adjusting never has any idea of the temper or alloy of the metal that the rod is made of. Any time that the tightening of the rod requires ANY effort, that's the time to stop and reevaluate what your intentions are. Snapping a truss rod on an acoustic or a set neck electric guitar could be the last thing you do with that guitar. I apologize if this is getting a bit off topic. I just wanted to reiterate and emphasize Roger's point and correct any misconceptions that I may have created with my earlier post.
Now available in 5G !
13 2010-07-30 12:51:25 (edited by Detman101 2010-07-30 13:34:41)
- Detman101
- Senior Member
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Re: Strings too far from neck?
If it's a cheapo guitar and you're willing to attempt the work yourself you can try this....
But keep in mind that if you mess it up or go too far, you will have to buy a new nut and bridge insert and reshape them to the specs you need. (Also not hard)
1. Take a measurement with a ruler at the first fret of how far the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of your strings is.
2. Once you have this distance, cut it in half and write it down. (This is the distance you will be lowering your nut the first time)
Now comes the fun part....lol.
3. Take that measurement and mark that distance on your guitar nut from the bottom.
You should wind up with a line close to the bottom of your nut.
4. Now remove the strings from your guitar and remove your nut.
Do this by scribing (Cutting away) the laquer where the nut and wood meet up with a razor blade.
If you dont do this, you will crack the wood in the next step and have a ruined guitar.
5. After you've scribed completely around the nut in all the places where you can see the finish bonding the nut to the guitar, get yourself a wooden dowel or short pencil shaft. Brace the neck against something soft and put the dowel/pencil-shaft against the nut and tap the dowel/pencil-shaft lightly until the nut pops out. You may have to tap it from both sides to get it loose.
6. Now once you have the nut out of the neck you can lower it. You do this by finding a perfectly flat surface, laying down some sandpaper and then sanding the bottom of the nut until you sand it down to that mark you made on the nut in Step 3. SAND EVENLY ON A FLAT SURFACE!!!! If you mess this up, you will have to try and even it out later...not easy. My preferred method is to slide the nut on top of the lain sandpaper, not the other way around. That way you can put pressure on the nut from above while holding the sandpaper in-place on the table/floor/flat surface.
7. Once you have sanded the nut down evenly to the mark you made on it, clean it off with a piece of paper and also CAREFULLY clean out any chunks of glue in the slot for the nut on the neck. Do not gouge the neck slot or your nut won't fit right.
8. Now place the nut in the slot and string up your old Low E-String and your High E-string that you took off earlier. Tune them to pitch and see if you like the new distance of your strings at the nut. If you do not like the distance and want it closer, repeat steps 1-7 (minus cleaning the nut slot...lol...once is good enough)
9. If you are happy with the distance, you're finished lowering the nut for now. Now you can work on seating the nut back in the slot permanently and movin on to the bridge.
10. Okay, remove your Low and high E-Strings again and put them aside.
Make sure there aren't any shavings or pieces of anything in the nut slot or on the nut. Take a small dab of elmers glue and lightly coat the bottom of the nut. You want enough elmers glue in there to hold the nut in place but without it gushing out all over the place. If it does spill don't worry...it's elmers glue. lol.
11. Slide the nut into the slot and make sure it is placed evenly in the slot and not hanging over to either side.
12. Restring the guitar and make sure that the nut is adjusted properly according to the way the strings are comfortable at tension. Once you have restrung the guitar and the nut is adjusted/seated properly, give it a good 30 minutes for the glue to dry. Once it has dried, tune the guitar to pitch and try playing chords at the first 5 frets. See if you like the action better.
THE BRIDGE
13. After the nut is done and dried, try playing higher up on the neck closer to the body. If your playing action is good there after lowering the nut, leave the guitar alone. However, if you would also like to lower your action at the 9th fret and up...you can do the following...
14. Take a measurement with a ruler at the 12th fret of how far the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of your strings is.
15. Once you have this distance, cut it in half and write it down. (This is the distance you will be lowering your bridge)
16. Remove the strings from your guitar and set them aside again. Once you have removed the strings, take a pair of calipers/pliers and remove the bridge insert from the bridge of your guitar. It's that cream colored thingie that stis in the slot at the spot where your strings go into the body of the guitar.
17. Once you've removed the bridge insert, take that measurement from at the 12th fret and mark that distance on your bridge insert from the bottom. You should wind up with a line close to the bottom of your bridge insert, make sure to mark it all the way across evenly so you can sand it evenly.
18. Now once you have the bridge insert out of the guitar you can lower it. You do this by finding a perfectly flat surface, laying down some sandpaper and then sanding the bottom of the bridge insert until you sand it down to that mark you made on it in Step 17. SAND EVENLY ON A FLAT SURFACE!!!! If you mess this up, you will have to try and even it out later...or replace it. My preferred method is to slide the bridge insert on top of the lain sandpaper, not the other way around. That way you can put even pressure on the insert from above while holding the sandpaper in-place on the table/floor/flat surface.
19. Once you have sanded the bridge insert down evenly to the mark you made on it, clean it off with a piece of towel paper.
20. Now place the bridge insert in the bridge slot and string up your guitar with the strings that you took off earlier. Tune them to pitch and see if you like the new distance of your strings at the bridge. If you do not like the distance and want it closer, repeat steps 13-20.
If you have any questions, feel free to message me or ask here.
=]
Dm
"Talent instantly recognizes genius,
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."
-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."
-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle
Re: Strings too far from neck?
Just my two cents worth....not all guitars have the truss rods that so many folks are mentioning.
I returned to playing my old Yamaha 6 string accoustic after more than 20 years absence, and found that I had the same issue as you describe....the strings were far too high from the fret board for me to play it easily.
Folks suggested that I adjust the truss rod, but I was unable to find it and ended up taking it to a music store (the 12th Fret in Toronto) to have it properly set up.The fellow there informed me that my guitar didn't have a truss rod to adjust, but they did some work on it ( filing down the bridge, etc., that made it far more playable).
That being said, the rental I obtained to keep me playing while my guitar was in the shop, was way easier to play than mine, even after the work had been done.
It seems that if the neck has deformed sufficiently, you will never be able to get the action that you would like short of getting a new guitar.
Poop.!
- Detman101
- Senior Member
- Offline
Re: Strings too far from neck?
Well, even in your situation Tunedeaf, the bridge and nut can always be shaved down as I suggested.
But you can't go the other way around without redoing a nut and bridge insert.
Well...you can, but shims are not stable unless they're made REALLY well and match up with the bridge and nut perfectly.
And if it's an acoustic with no truss rod you're out of luck without MAJOR repairs.
Dm
"Talent instantly recognizes genius,
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."
-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."
-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle
- Guitarpix
- Underwater Firefighter
- Offline
Re: Strings too far from neck?
Detman101 wrote:
If it's a cheapo guitar and you're willing to attempt the work yourself you can try this....
But keep in mind that if you mess it up or go too far, you will have to buy a new nut and bridge insert and reshape them to the specs you need. (Also not hard)1. Take a measurement with a ruler at the first fret of how far the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of your strings is.
2. Once you have this distance, cut it in half and write it down. (This is the distance you will be lowering your nut the first time)
Now comes the fun part....lol.
3. Take that measurement and mark that distance on your guitar nut from the bottom.
You should wind up with a line close to the bottom of your nut.4. Now remove the strings from your guitar and remove your nut.
Do this by scribing (Cutting away) the laquer where the nut and wood meet up with a razor blade.
If you dont do this, you will crack the wood in the next step and have a ruined guitar.5. After you've scribed completely around the nut in all the places where you can see the finish bonding the nut to the guitar, get yourself a wooden dowel or short pencil shaft. Brace the neck against something soft and put the dowel/pencil-shaft against the nut and tap the dowel/pencil-shaft lightly until the nut pops out. You may have to tap it from both sides to get it loose.
6. Now once you have the nut out of the neck you can lower it. You do this by finding a perfectly flat surface, laying down some sandpaper and then sanding the bottom of the nut until you sand it down to that mark you made on the nut in Step 3. SAND EVENLY ON A FLAT SURFACE!!!! If you mess this up, you will have to try and even it out later...not easy. My preferred method is to slide the nut on top of the lain sandpaper, not the other way around. That way you can put pressure on the nut from above while holding the sandpaper in-place on the table/floor/flat surface.
7. Once you have sanded the nut down evenly to the mark you made on it, clean it off with a piece of paper and also CAREFULLY clean out any chunks of glue in the slot for the nut on the neck. Do not gouge the neck slot or your nut won't fit right.
8. Now place the nut in the slot and string up your old Low E-String and your High E-string that you took off earlier. Tune them to pitch and see if you like the new distance of your strings at the nut. If you do not like the distance and want it closer, repeat steps 1-7 (minus cleaning the nut slot...lol...once is good enough)
9. If you are happy with the distance, you're finished lowering the nut for now. Now you can work on seating the nut back in the slot permanently and movin on to the bridge.
10. Okay, remove your Low and high E-Strings again and put them aside.
Make sure there aren't any shavings or pieces of anything in the nut slot or on the nut. Take a small dab of elmers glue and lightly coat the bottom of the nut. You want enough elmers glue in there to hold the nut in place but without it gushing out all over the place. If it does spill don't worry...it's elmers glue. lol.11. Slide the nut into the slot and make sure it is placed evenly in the slot and not hanging over to either side.
12. Restring the guitar and make sure that the nut is adjusted properly according to the way the strings are comfortable at tension. Once you have restrung the guitar and the nut is adjusted/seated properly, give it a good 30 minutes for the glue to dry. Once it has dried, tune the guitar to pitch and try playing chords at the first 5 frets. See if you like the action better.
THE BRIDGE
13. After the nut is done and dried, try playing higher up on the neck closer to the body. If your playing action is good there after lowering the nut, leave the guitar alone. However, if you would also like to lower your action at the 9th fret and up...you can do the following...
14. Take a measurement with a ruler at the 12th fret of how far the distance between the top of the fret and the bottom of your strings is.
15. Once you have this distance, cut it in half and write it down. (This is the distance you will be lowering your bridge)
16. Remove the strings from your guitar and set them aside again. Once you have removed the strings, take a pair of calipers/pliers and remove the bridge insert from the bridge of your guitar. It's that cream colored thingie that stis in the slot at the spot where your strings go into the body of the guitar.
17. Once you've removed the bridge insert, take that measurement from at the 12th fret and mark that distance on your bridge insert from the bottom. You should wind up with a line close to the bottom of your bridge insert, make sure to mark it all the way across evenly so you can sand it evenly.
18. Now once you have the bridge insert out of the guitar you can lower it. You do this by finding a perfectly flat surface, laying down some sandpaper and then sanding the bottom of the bridge insert until you sand it down to that mark you made on it in Step 17. SAND EVENLY ON A FLAT SURFACE!!!! If you mess this up, you will have to try and even it out later...or replace it. My preferred method is to slide the bridge insert on top of the lain sandpaper, not the other way around. That way you can put even pressure on the insert from above while holding the sandpaper in-place on the table/floor/flat surface.
19. Once you have sanded the bridge insert down evenly to the mark you made on it, clean it off with a piece of towel paper.
20. Now place the bridge insert in the bridge slot and string up your guitar with the strings that you took off earlier. Tune them to pitch and see if you like the new distance of your strings at the bridge. If you do not like the distance and want it closer, repeat steps 13-20.
If you have any questions, feel free to message me or ask here.
=]
Dm
Sup det? Sorry, but I'm going to disagree on some of these....
About #1.... This really can't be trusted... What if the problem isn't at the nut or it's only the outer strings due to it not being set to the neck radius? Most cheaper guitars come with almost no real set up and for that reason I think the nut should always be adjusted in place. It should be done by adjusting each string slot so that the strings are the same height across the nut matching the fretboards curve/radius. This is really rough (made fast one evening for tony) but gives a rough idea of how I measure and adjust a nut http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KdBZ3vL5ZY
I do the saddle a bit different than you describe as well... Say you have an action of 5/32 at the 12th and you want 3/32.... that gives us a difference of 2/32 or 1/16... now we take that and double it to 1/8 and that is what needs to be removed from the bottom of the saddle to bring us to our desired height at the 12th... I do mine roughly like this ( another quick vid I made for tony, for some reason I could not my d chord to ring clearly in the vid the way I holding the guit...:lol:) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjXMH7Uw8G4
I plan to redo these vids more professionally and cover a set up from beginning to end to help people with these questions as soon as I have time...
[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b] [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]
[/color][/b] [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]
- Detman101
- Senior Member
- Offline
Re: Strings too far from neck?
Heya Pix!
No problemo bud. I don't even pretend to have all the answers as I've not been doing this long enough. There are many members on this site more wise than me, and even a few luthiers too.
I just thought i'd throw my information out and see if he could use it.
It takes a village!
Dm
"Talent instantly recognizes genius,
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."
-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."
-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle