Topic: BLUES: the scales

CONCERNING PLAYING BLUES:
I am like a virgin in the blues, I can play blues, they are often played in "minor", because of the melancholic effect.
But: concerning scales I have to admit my knowledge is ZERO, yes I can play a pentatonic, but I really understand nothing about, again, the scales.
I have books and VCR tapes, who are really from the time when animals did speak.
Are there chordian friends who can help?? professional or fanatic blues playing "chordians"

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: BLUES: the scales

I usually play the A minor pentatonic scale (I think that's what this one is called).
That pattern can be played anywhere on the neck.

It looks like this (play these frets on these strings)

e - 5 & 8
b - 5 & 8
g - 5 & 7
d - 5 & 7
a - 5 & 7
E - 5 & 8

The "5 & 7" parts are just two frets apart and the "5 & 8" parts are three frets apart.
You can put any of the notes in this pattern together and get sounds that go good together.

There are many other "Blues Boxes" but this one is my favorite that I always seem to automatically play.

Good luck,
Dm

"Talent instantly recognizes genius,
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."

-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle

Re: BLUES: the scales

Detman101 wrote:

I usually play the A minor pentatonic scale (I think that's what this one is called).
That pattern can be played anywhere on the neck.

Dm

That's "pattern 4."  The fourth of five minor pentatonic patterns.    It's only Am when you start on the 5th fret.  If you start on the 7th, it's B minor pentatonic.  Start on the 3rd, and it's G minor, etc.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: BLUES: the scales

jerome.oneil wrote:
Detman101 wrote:

I usually play the A minor pentatonic scale (I think that's what this one is called).
That pattern can be played anywhere on the neck.

Dm

That's "pattern 4."  The fourth of five minor pentatonic patterns.    It's only Am when you start on the 5th fret.  If you start on the 7th, it's B minor pentatonic.  Start on the 3rd, and it's G minor, etc.

SWEET!! Thank you! Can you tell me what all the different fret positions for "Pattern 4" are please.
That will help me so much you couldn't understand it!!!


Thank you thank you thank you thank you,
Dm

"Talent instantly recognizes genius,
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."

-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle

Re: BLUES: the scales

Detman101 wrote:
jerome.oneil wrote:
Detman101 wrote:

I usually play the A minor pentatonic scale (I think that's what this one is called).
That pattern can be played anywhere on the neck.

Dm

That's "pattern 4."  The fourth of five minor pentatonic patterns.    It's only Am when you start on the 5th fret.  If you start on the 7th, it's B minor pentatonic.  Start on the 3rd, and it's G minor, etc.

SWEET!! Thank you! Can you tell me what all the different fret positions for "Pattern 4" are please.
That will help me so much you couldn't understand it!!!


Thank you thank you thank you thank you,
Dm

http://www.tonart.com/Main/ScaleLessons … terns.html

The thing about this chart is that it has the pattern you described as pattern 2, but that's no big deal.   

The important thing to remember is that despite what it says at the top of the page, these are only A minor pentatonic because they start on A.  The root of each of these scales is indicated with the little circle.    Set the root wherever you want, and it will be that scale.  These are completely portable all over the neck.   B minor is *exactly* the same pattern, with the root on B.

To take this notion a little further,  *all* scales have these kinds of patterns.  Complete major and minor scales do.  Major pentatonic do.   Diminished and dominant scales do.  The fretboard is layed out in patterns.  It just takes practice and study to find them.

Good luck!

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

6 (edited by gitaardocphil 2007-09-09 08:59:27)

Re: BLUES: the scales

It is not really that I know NOTHING about pentatonic. I used them before I knew, like the same pattern as beautifully described by Detman, you can use it on every fret from the first to....
But are there also other scales AND WHY IS THIS SO IMPORTANT IN BLUES, meaning like is it used to play solos, and how, why..
Thanks already, you are a great help

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

7 (edited by Kahuna 2007-08-30 17:05:22)

Re: BLUES: the scales

Playing Blues is often more an attitude, and not really the scale!  Yes, the scales are important. But, in a typical 12-bar blues riff, playing in Am pentatonic, you can do wonders within that scale!  It's really depends on how creative you are.  You can do long or short bends (1/2 or full), some slide, or hammer to make your playing more interesting!  You can then, move your scale to the 17th fret, which is the same as playing the 5th fret of the Am pentatonic.  Just have fun and try different tricks when playing the blues. 

kahuna


gitaardocphil wrote:

It is not really that I know NOTHING about pentatonic. I used the before I knew, like the same pattern as beautifully described by Detman, you can use it on every fret from the first to....
But are there also other scales AND WHY IS THIS SO IMPORTANT IN BLUES, meaning like is it used to play solos, and how, why..
Thanks already, you are a great help

8 (edited by SouthPaw41L 2007-10-02 18:58:25)

Re: BLUES: the scales

I'm with Kahuna in blues playin'.Playin' the blues is letting out the hurt in ones heart. It's got very little to do with the technical or theoretic aspect of music but instead the conveyance of true human emotion. Yes one does have some basic structural knowledge of chord>scale relativity  but it's more about expressing an inner feeling. It's not so much the notes you hit but how you hit them. It's not so much the 1/2 or full bends but it's the vibrato appied at the notes crescendo or decline. It's knowing when to shout and knowing when to whisper. It's expression,expression,expression man, ya dig?


Sincerely,
Toney

Give everything but up.

Re: BLUES: the scales

All the emotion and artistic intent in the world means nothing if you can not manipulate the fretboard in a predictable manner.

Blues isn't just the scale, but it's nothing without it.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: BLUES: the scales

Here here. You can't let the hurt out if your fingers are all in the wrong place.

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

Re: BLUES: the scales

You can also use the actual blues scale wich is almost exactly the same as the pentatonic. I'll give you an example in A

e - 5 & 8
b - 5 & 8
g - 5 & 7 & 8
d - 5 & 7
a - 5 & 6 & 7
E - 5 & 8

[url=http://www.myspace.com/rdxfunk]www.myspace.com/rdxfunk[/url]

Re: BLUES: the scales

Altex,

Yes, I love using the blues scale below as well!  The 6 and 7 transition note on A and G strings really makes it unique! 


Altex wrote:

You can also use the actual blues scale wich is almost exactly the same as the pentatonic. I'll give you an example in A

e - 5 & 8
b - 5 & 8
g - 5 & 7 & 8
d - 5 & 7
a - 5 & 6 & 7
E - 5 & 8

Re: BLUES: the scales

Jerome,

Yes, I completely agree with you about knowing the scales.  What I should have said, also, was that most people think that playing Blues is too tough or too confusing (with scales and all).  But, having seen Muddy Waters, BB King and other Blues players, a few simple notes with some attitude really helped their expression!  So, maybe folks wouldn't have to be afraid of trying to play the blues! 

jerome.oneil wrote:

All the emotion and artistic intent in the world means nothing if you can not manipulate the fretboard in a predictable manner.

Blues isn't just the scale, but it's nothing without it.

Re: BLUES: the scales

I think you all are right with your meanings but without knowless what you you can not play music with feeling from your heart.
you all that you first have to train what you want play and then anytime you can put in feeling into your play.
All you talk about the first position of pentatonic, but there 4positions more to play blues pentatonic.
That´s Am pentatonic scale
First position  second position    Third position   Fouth position   Fifth position
e - 5 & 8         e - 8 & 10         e -10 & 12         e -12 & 15        e-15 & 17     
b - 5 & 8         b - 8 & 10         b -10 & 13         b -13 & 15        b-15 & 17
g - 5 & 7         g - 7 & 9           g -9 & 12          g -12 & 14        g- 14 & 17
d - 5 & 7         d - 7 & 10         d -10& 12         d - 12 & 14       d- 14 & 17
a - 5 & 7         a - 7 & 10         a -10&12          a - 12 & 15       a- 15 & 17
E - 5 & 8         E - 8 & 10         E -10&12          E - 12 & 15       E- 15 & 17

You have to train that position so long that you don´t have to think what position you play. Try to bind the postions and you will get fun with it.

That positions are for also for the other Chords you only have to choose the position on your neck. For example for F your first position is on the first fret.

Let

Re: BLUES: the scales

Hey Guys, Just sitting back here reading this thread has give me a much better understanding too.  Thank you.  Totally agree about emotion/feel thats needed.  Love the blues.

"If You Always Do What You've Always Done - You'll Always Get What You've Always Got !"

Re: BLUES: the scales

st800 wrote:

I think you all are right with your meanings but without knowless what you you can not play music with feeling from your heart.
you all that you first have to train what you want play and then anytime you can put in feeling into your play.
All you talk about the first position of pentatonic, but there 4positions more to play blues pentatonic.
That´s Am pentatonic scale
First position  second position    Third position   Fouth position   Fifth position
e - 5 & 8         e - 8 & 10         e -10 & 12         e -12 & 15        e-15 & 17     
b - 5 & 8         b - 8 & 10         b -10 & 13         b -13 & 15        b-15 & 17
g - 5 & 7         g - 7 & 9           g -9 & 12          g -12 & 14        g- 14 & 17
d - 5 & 7         d - 7 & 10         d -10& 12         d - 12 & 14       d- 14 & 17
a - 5 & 7         a - 7 & 10         a -10&12          a - 12 & 15       a- 15 & 17
E - 5 & 8         E - 8 & 10         E -10&12          E - 12 & 15       E- 15 & 17

You have to train that position so long that you don´t have to think what position you play. Try to bind the postions and you will get fun with it.

That positions are for also for the other Chords you only have to choose the position on your neck. For example for F your first position is on the first fret.

Suuuhweeeeeeeeeet!!!

Thanks man!

Dm

"Talent instantly recognizes genius,
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."

-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle

Re: BLUES: the scales

Well said ST!  I do agree that there are other positions one can explore in the Am pentatonic scale.  What you have below is what I'm used to as well.  I've limited my comments to only the first position because it was easier to read and understand by those who read this thread! 

Playing the Blues is wonderful, and it easier than most people think!  I especially love the fifth position.  It makes such a difference when jamming with other people! 

Thanks,
Kahuna


st800 wrote:

I think you all are right with your meanings but without knowless what you you can not play music with feeling from your heart.
you all that you first have to train what you want play and then anytime you can put in feeling into your play.
All you talk about the first position of pentatonic, but there 4positions more to play blues pentatonic.
That´s Am pentatonic scale
First position  second position    Third position   Fouth position   Fifth position
e - 5 & 8         e - 8 & 10         e -10 & 12         e -12 & 15        e-15 & 17     
b - 5 & 8         b - 8 & 10         b -10 & 13         b -13 & 15        b-15 & 17
g - 5 & 7         g - 7 & 9           g -9 & 12          g -12 & 14        g- 14 & 17
d - 5 & 7         d - 7 & 10         d -10& 12         d - 12 & 14       d- 14 & 17
a - 5 & 7         a - 7 & 10         a -10&12          a - 12 & 15       a- 15 & 17
E - 5 & 8         E - 8 & 10         E -10&12          E - 12 & 15       E- 15 & 17

You have to train that position so long that you don´t have to think what position you play. Try to bind the postions and you will get fun with it.

That positions are for also for the other Chords you only have to choose the position on your neck. For example for F your first position is on the first fret.

Re: BLUES: the scales

Hey these patterns are great!  does anyone know or use the patterns for minor pentatonic that begin in the 5th string? I like to use these scales and go back and forth with major scales on my leads.  I think it sounds good.  Does anyone see any problems with that?
S

Re: BLUES: the scales

I am so glad to get such an impressing answers.
The reason of "the existence" of the blues, go back far away. Somewhere in an article I read that there still are black Africans, in different parts of Africa, where you can hear and learn a lot of their music. I've been several  (+-10) times to South Africa, you have ZULUS, XHOSA (Nelson Mandela is a XHOSA) and BUSHMEN (this should be a tribe for George W.)
If you are interested  surf to www.africaguide.com, but I heard more than once music there. The way they sing and play, is amazing, best example: PAUL SIMON when he releasedalbum immensely popular Graceland, for which he won a Grammy. The album featured the ground breaking use of African rhythms and performers such as Ladysmith Black Mambazo, VERY popular in South Africa ISN'T IT NADINE???. I think that blues is straight from the heart, but in the beginning, they were singing on the cotton fields, probably GOSPEL & BLUES were developed more or less simultanious. Gospel was OK, because there they could sing now in public, and it was a must: going to Church. Blues: BLACK BETTY a big hit for Ram Jam, but written by Lead Belly. I have a big box, about: Sony 100 years music containg 26 CD's, and a must for music lovers. There are even songs, recorded in early 1900. Still a lot of money, for a lot of music. On www.amazon.com you look for Sony 100 years of music. ONE OF THE BEST ALBUMS EVER MADE 
giving you an idea about the evolution, all different kinds of music, going over Opera, Operette, Blues, Gospel, R&B, Folk, Rock and Pop. See for yourself, but don't get an heartattack when you see the price. On the Amazon market $159.99 and brand new $296.99. I was very lucky to receive this box, as a "relation" gift, when still working. I wish I could share this with you.
My opinion about blues is identical to yours: STRAIGHT FROM THE HEART. But do you agree if I tell that this is the same for other songs? see WHITHOUT YOU, written and performed by BADFINGER, as a catchy, but still melancholic song, covered only a few months later by HARRY NILSSON, the song comes from real deep in his soul (I compare this a lot with "A little help from my friends" written and performed by the Beatles, BUT WHO REMEMBERS THE LONG CUTTING TO THE BONE CRY, in the Woodstock version by Joe Cocker?
I have the impression that a lot, maybe 50-75% of the songs (pop & rock" are Blues related.
You don't need a solo on guitar, minutes long, you need TO feel the music. If you don't, you may be a super guitarist, but you will always stay a robot, if you don't put a peace of you in that song.
Also a lot of producers are ruining a lot of songs, glad that we find a lot of bootlegs or outtakes, where you see the spirit again, and not "good enough to use this version", but a cleaned up version caused by producers.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: BLUES: the scales

ssp3 wrote:

Hey these patterns are great!  does anyone know or use the patterns for minor pentatonic that begin in the 5th string? I like to use these scales and go back and forth with major scales on my leads.  I think it sounds good.  Does anyone see any problems with that?
S

It's all about intervals.  The guitar is tuned to 4ths (it's a major 4th between strings, except for G -> B, which is a 3rd), so you can start those patterns on any string except G, and you will *generally* be OK, as the intervals are the same.   If you want to learn to play them from the D string, simply play a pentatonic staring on E to the D.  This is the octave.      Whatever you play from there is a brand new pentatonic.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: BLUES: the scales

Jerome
You are the man I need, admiring AND envying your knowledge.
Are you a (semi- hobby-professional) like teaching music? In theory, I should now, today, working in Canada. In 1997, everything was ready to ship to South Africa to become generalist. They are allowed to perform a lot more things, like GASTROSCOPY. After working to improve my skills, I had a place open for me, giving the opportunity that you want to work in Australia, New Zealand and CANADA. But, just in between I met a girl, THE ONE WHO LEFT ME WHILE IN HOSPITAL 2005, AND ALSO THE ONE WHO THROW AWAY my Gibson Black Les Paul MADE in 1968, the FIRST YEAR of a new start. She is worth $$$$$ if all original, which I let replace by P-94, because I had already  1978 custom, so the value is now $$. Don't you have connections who are selling guitar parts? I don't know if they are PAF's.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: BLUES: the scales

Nope.  I'm just a complete theory geek.  I've been playing music since I was in 5th grade, and grew up to be an engineer.  I don't have a lot of time to "figure stuff out" so I took a little time to learn theory, which has saved me a ton of time when it gets down to actually playing the instrument.   I also like to teach (taught at UW, and worked for Seattle Public Schools for a while) and I absolutely love kids, so this is a good outlet for me.  It lets me share some knowledge, it lets me work out my theory geekisms, and it satisfies my engineering need to know why something works, rather than just knowing it does.

As far as the girl with the '68 Gibson:   Dude, I'd never advocate violence in any form against any one, but dude!   A '68 Gibson Les Paul?  Is there a statute of limitations on that?

http://www.rocknrollvintage.com/prodimages/68'%20Gibson%20Les%20Paul%20Custom.jpg

* droool *

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: BLUES: the scales

Altex,

Yes, I love using the blues scale below as well!  The 6 and 7 transition note on A and G strings really makes it unique! 

e - 5 & 8
b - 5 & 8
g - 5 & 7 & 8
d - 5 & 7
a - 5 & 6 & 7
E - 5 & 8

Does anyone know any guidelines for moving this scale up and down the neck like the minor pentatonic?  Do you have to adjust it like you do with the minor pentatonics? ? or does it stay the same and you just have to move it up 2 frets for a whole tone and 1 fret for a 1/2 tone?
Thanks,
ssp3

Re: BLUES: the scales

i  play the pentatonic scale with a few exra notes calling it the blues pentatonic for example Am blues pentatonic would be -

E  5-8
A  5-6-7
D  5-7
G  5-7
B  4-5-8
E  5-8

and ont he way up it would be exactly the same only instead of playing 7-5 on the G ud play it 8-7-5

its nice to add the extra notes i think it sounds good and i practice it quite alot and also throw a jam track on and have a bit of a mess around with it
please correct me if theres anything wrong all your info helps me out.

Re: BLUES: the scales

oh and forgot to say u dont play the 4th fret on the b on the way up