• bunbun
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Topic: Waste of taxpayer money?

I have to get this off my chest and this is the only forum in which I can do it. Sorry that it is not guitar related but I know many of you have either heard of this or may have followed it with some interest.

Lance Armstrong has been stripped of his seven Tour De France titles by the world governing federation of the Tour. This follows months of back and forth between Armstrong and the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) who stated they have reams of witness statements from former teammates and other bicyclists who competed against/with Armstrong. This also follows Armstrong's decision last week to cease his efforts to continue fighting the USADA over their allegations.

Now I know many of you may be thinking, "You are spending too much time getting hot over something so trivial!", and you would be right except for one thing: While the USADA is a non-profit corporation not affiliated with the federal government they receive 10 million dollars per year in non-competitive (means that money canot go to anyone else but them) federal grants! Ten million dollars to "police" sports!

I agree that sports should be drug free. I don't want my children, or anyone else's, idolizing athletes who achieve their greatness through better chemistry rather than hard work and diligence. I applaud the fact that the various sporting bodies have taken a drug free stance to help keep the playing field balanced and cheat free.

What I don't agree with is our government spending millions of dollars to help the sports governing bodies do their investigations. I was appalled when Major League Baseball players were "subpoena'd" to appear before congress to testify in regards to their drug use or non-use. I was appalled that the federal government took it upon themselves to prosecute both Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens for perjury that they allegedly committed when they appeared before that "august" body.

I don't like Bonds and I am not very fond of Clemens. Bonds was an arrogant putz and Clemens was on the Red Sox when they beat my beloved Angels in the ALCS in '86, (Yes, I can be petty too).

I followed and supported Armstrong while he owned the Tour De France. I followed his many mix-ups with cycling's governing body in regards to doping and I was relieved every time he was exonerated. Armstrong NEVER failed a drug test in all the years he cycled competitively. NEVER. His story of overcoming cancer to win not one but SEVEN TDF's was front page news and, in a sport dominated by Europeans, it was nice to see an American win once in awhile....Or seven times in a row.

I am not a cyclist but one who likes seeing a person or team succeed in such a dominating manner as it shows that they, hopefully, have put in the work necessary to win in such convincing fashion.

I am not only peeved but mad that the federal government would allow itself to become a part of something it has NO BUSINESS being involved in. Every professional sports league in the USA is a private entity. Even the US Olympic committee is a private non-profit organization. As a private entity the onus to prove or not prove doping is upon the shoulders of that entity, NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!

In this day of a crappy economy, huge national debt and unemployment  our tax dollars should NEVER be used to fund anti-doping in sports not should it be used to investigate anti-doping in sports. As a firefighter, a member of a public safety union and one who is on the wrong end of (unjustifiably IMO) attacks upon my profession I am appalled that a politician or government could so easily throw me and my brothers and sisters under the bus for "waste" yet allow millions upon millions of our tax dollars to be spent in investigating doping in sports leagues that are purely private in nature.

Isn't there not a more pressing matter that all those millions of dollars could be spent on?

Stepping off the soap box now...Thanks for listening.

I look forward to any rebuttals or agreements.

  • Zurf
  • Zurf
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  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2007-06-27
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Re: Waste of taxpayer money?

The federal government involves itself in all manner of things I think they have no cause to be involved in.  I agree with every one of the items you listed.  It's really more a sports post than a political one, but given the nature of the beast it has to be at least a little political. 

That said, I'll keep a close eye on it to be sure it stays within the forum rules, as even tangentially political things have a way of getting out of hand near the end of an election cycle.

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • From: A black hole in deep space
  • Registered: 2007-10-28
  • Posts: 7,863

Re: Waste of taxpayer money?

I think given the fact that Armstrong and team mates rode for the U.S. postal service (which is a federal agency) I dont see how it could have been avoided and must be accountable and before the doping was discoverd I cant remember any complaints of sponsership when he won and by this reasoning we should cancel the Ryder cup or the America's cup sailboat racing and the olympics.

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Russell_Harding's Website

  • Zurf
  • Zurf
  • Blunt but well meaning moderator
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  • From: Virginia, USA
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Re: Waste of taxpayer money?

What frustrates me with the whole Lance Armstrong thing is that he passed all the tests.  What is the point of having tests if passing them is of less value than hearsay?  Further, stripping Lance Armstrong of the titles means they pass to the second best performer, who failed his drug tests.  Maybe that just means that Lance Armstrong is the better cheater, but it's still a frustration to me. 

Also, if they're all doping, which is pretty much what the evidence they have against Lance Armstrong shows, then they were on a level playing field. 

- Zurf



Edited to correct grammar.

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • From: A black hole in deep space
  • Registered: 2007-10-28
  • Posts: 7,863

Re: Waste of taxpayer money?

I have to agree it seems no one is going to be awarded like it never happend

Zurf wrote:

What frustrates me with the whole Lance Armstrong thing is that he passed all the tests.  What is the point of having tests if passing them is of less value than hearsay?  Further, stripping Lance Armstrong of the titles means they pass to the second best performer, who failed his drug tests.  Maybe that just means that Lance Armstrong is the better cheater, but it's still a frustration to me. 

Also, if they're all doping, which is pretty much what the evidence they have against Lance Armstrong shows, then they were on a level playing field. 

- Zurf



Edited to correct grammar.

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Russell_Harding's Website

  • From: Bellevue, WA
  • Registered: 2006-06-15
  • Posts: 3,336

Re: Waste of taxpayer money?

Armstrong doped and I don't care!
Armstrong doped and I don't care!
Armstrong doped and I don't care!
Because everyone in cycling dopes! (And everyone knows it.)

I seriously don't get the Armstrong hate.   If you strip him of his titles and give those tour wins to the #2 guy, you will have to consider the fact that the #2 guy in every one of Armstrong's wins is also a doper.  The guy that won the tour in 2006 after Armstrong quit was a doper. 

Cycling is as dirty a sport as there is and my policy on it "so what."  It's a bike race.  Ride faster.

You know what I do care about?  The half a billion dollars Armstrong's charity raised for cancer survivors and cancer awareness.   That is now at risk because people want to believe he's a scumbag because he doped in a sport where everyone dopes.   They want to focus on "he cheated" instead of "if he didn't cheat, that half a billion dollars in good work never would have existed."

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

jerome.oneil's Website

  • From: Madeira Beach, Florida
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 3,311

Re: Waste of taxpayer money?

^ well said jerome

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!
  • From: Tooele Ut
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 4,049

Re: Waste of taxpayer money?

Oh, I agree Jerome.  At the end of the day, or race, you still have to be the fastest to win.  The little edge it gives you is not worth the hatred.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.
  • From: Dunedin, New Zealand
  • Registered: 2007-01-01
  • Posts: 200

Re: Waste of taxpayer money?

The trouble with large "professional" sports, is that the "sport" has really gone out of the equation. i.e; the notion that sport played purely for its own sake and the honest competitive pitting of skills against each other, is today an anachronism. Sport is about money, period. From the big corporations who own the teams or provide sponsorship  all the way down to the players who are only in it for the the big paycheck. This is where cheating comes in, because getting away with cheating means eaveryone in the sports foodchain gets to satisfy their ever expanding greed. Getting caught simply means all those sponsors, and administrators have to adopt a hand-wringing self rightious posture for a while, get rid of the scapegoat, then carry on as normal.

"War never determines who is right , only who is left"
"Democracy is the right to protest about  the lack of it!"
  • bunbun
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  • Registered: 2010-09-24
  • Posts: 255

Re: Waste of taxpayer money?

Funny. Most of the replies to my posts are very similar to comments posted after the stories about Armstrong in the sporting news media. It seems that no one really cares whether or not Armstrong was doping as it appears that the top 20 riders on the tour have been involved in doping too.

The other replies mirror those on the sporting media in regards to the fact that Armstrong NEVER failed a test. Thus he was either clean or just a damn good doper.

The ICU (International Cycling Union) only pulled Armstrong's wins after the USADA said that they were going to treat Armstrong as a doper and were willing to provide "testimony" from numerous witnesses. One of the funny things about the accusations is that they refused to let Armstrong see the "list" and testimony. As a "private" corporation they don't have to honor the discovery laws nor do they have to give Armstrong a fair shake. I have issues with that as they can target anyone they want, cast aspersions and state they have "witness" statements and then take any actions they deem necessary to punish the athlete.

I think of all the people that Armstrong inspired with his story and his success. I know of a few that began biking due to Armstrong's feats. I know many who support his Livestrong foundation and, like Jerome, am concerned that this action will cause people to NOT donate to the foundation thus preventing those who need the foundation's help, not to have an avenue of relief.

Anyway, thanks for your replies. I am always interested to hear other opinions on matters such as this as I sometimes think I over-react.