Topic: POLITICS AND MUSIC

As an American lover, I am very interested by the "elections." Even not having a clue about how the system works. DISAPPOINTED in 2000 (I was in a hospital bed) watching the results.
SOME PERSONAL REMARKS:
- What did happen in FLORIDA, the "election opera" about counting. THE RESULTS THERE WERE SO IMPORTANT. WHY DID THEY STOP COUNTING VOTES? My guess is "NEPOTISM"a DISGRACE + CHEATING the people in the USA.
Nepotism in it's clearest form: little brother JEB BUSH having the power to help his brother win, by court decisions, to read later that GORE should be the new President.
I don't understand at all your election system.
Fund-raising? Paying 1000$ to eat together with a candidate?
WHAT IS THE IMPACT ON THE CAREER of a BAND "outing themselves" as Republican or Democrats 
In fact I have to write: IMPACT OF A FAMOUS BAND OR PERFORMER on the elections, AND THE IMPACT OF THE RESULTS of the elections on THAT BAND or PERFORMER.
Is there a repercussion later? Like less people going to a concert, or more?
Isn't it all about the REAL power? WEAPONS, OIL? Amazing to see how the contacts with BIN LADEN were 20 years ago, the connections with the BUSH family?
WHERE DO THEY GET THEIR MONEY FROM? even a remarkable fact in the pre-election, giving their support for a not even "elected"candidate.
Can someone give me more info? I love the USA, not the big cities, like New York, LA, Miami, Las Vegas?
THIS ISN'T A TOPIC TO USE AS WEAPON, OR AS A "VENTILATION" OF YOUR POLITICAL IDEAS.
IT'S AN OBJECTIVE TOPIC, AS SEEN BY AN EUROPEAN OBSERVER, BECAUSE:
- I LOVE THE USA
- BECAUSE I LOVE THE USA, to TRY TO GET AN IDEA, A "CORRECT" IDEA, NOT WHAT WE SEE IN OUR JOURNAL ON TV OR WHAT WE READ. It is again a US versus EUROPE difference, THINGS WHO LOOK STRANGE, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW or UNDERSTAND VERY DIFFICULT
I appreciate every answer, and I'm really looking forward to UNDERSTAND your system

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: POLITICS AND MUSIC

I hope this does not turn into a full scale argument with different folk with different political beliefs as most discussion like this can turn out to be.
So please folk, stick to facts and not personal opinions


Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: POLITICS AND MUSIC

I agree UYK.
I should have written, and I will change it, that this is NOT AT ALL to "ventilate" your politic opinion.
I added what should be added.
If SOME OF THESE QUESTIONS are INAPPROPRIATE: My mother tongue isn't ENGLISH but I DON'T MEAN TO OFFENCE A PERSON.
It's about, what I call the "show aspect" because we Europeans are not familiar at all with your elections. Here in our country: 1 person, 1 vote. That's my point of view.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: POLITICS AND MUSIC

So many questions, so many answers...
Guitardocphil, you should be recommeded for trying to understand American politics, starting with elections and all, and I certainly do not have all the answers. As a former European,now living in America I'm not even qualified to speak with authority. But I know this much: It all started with a revolution. These British colonies were far away from England. Farmers, laborers, traders and small business people had come to the colonies to live their lives free of religious and political repression. So, this is the first chapter.

Second chapter: France and Britain had been fighting each other for colonies and trade on the high seas, mainly to enrich themselves. Now all of the sudden, these British subjects in America refused to pay taxes on imported goods and for all kinds of stuff. Queen:"Make them pay!" French King:"Let's help these colonists in their rebellion against the crown!" Colonists:"Since we started this, let's finish it and declare independence". -Here I'm loosing it a little, because I'm figuring out that this will take forever...

One thing is for sure, the American Constitution was a piece of political art. And if this brilliant document hadn't been amended hundreds of times, we would all still live in democratic harmony -except people with black skin color, and red, and yellow (and women!) still wouldn't have the right to vote, because they would be someone's property. So, major progress has been made to make us all equal before the law. Similar developments took place in Europe and Asia as well. But for quite a while, America was not even interested in the rest of the world, because we were busy driving the native Indians onto small reservations, fighting a bloody civil war, and hunting bad guys in New Mexico.

The history of the United States also is a history of gigantic real estate speculations: The Louisiana Purchase (the French King was broke again), annexation of California from the weak Spanish (supply lines too long), purchase of Alaska from the Russians (the average Russian had probably never heard of Alaska anyway). Fortunes were made, railways were built, gold was found in California, industrialists amassed great wealth. Why share with the new European immigrants who came by the hundreds of thousands...? Ok, here I will stop for today. The previous sermon does not answer your intelligent questions about America, but I firmly believe that HISTORY is to blame. "Winning" the elections today is just as dubious as it was in the early days of our new country: If you can manage to become a political pop star, you can outspend your competition, and then be the President for at least four years.

It's really more complicated than that, but I don't want to bore you'all here on this lovely forum. Presidential elections are coming up in November -we need a guitar player in the White House!

Play on!

Re: POLITICS AND MUSIC

First, nicely done, Tennessee Strat. Only exception, is that it was King George in England, not a Queen at that time. And, as you eluded to, I credit much of the success of America to geography, and some ruthlessness.

gitaardocphil,

I don't know where to start with your questions, so I will take the easy one. You asked about the influence of bands and the elections (whether the bands will benefit or not from aligning with a particular candidate).

I don't think aligning with a candidate is as impactful on the band as it is on the candidate. Any candidate who can get the support of a popular band will instantly become "cooler" and more "in touch" with the people. They will also get a lot of free publicity. The band benefits either way, (any publicity is good publicity!) and, as is becoming very vogue here in the US, the band gets to promote their ideology.

The unfortunate thing about our political system is that, while we say that anyone can become president, the truth is that anyone who can afford to run a successful campaign can become president.

No matter what side of the political line they are on (Democrat or Republican), it takes tons of money to successfully run for president. The problem with that is, when you get to the White House, you turn around and see behind you an ocean of people with their hands out waiting to be "compensated" for their contributions.

Compensation comes in the form of passing legislation that your supporters are in favor of, and appointing people to cabinet positions. So, typically, no matter the integrity or best intentions of the candidate, by the time they get elected, they are no longer their own person (if they ever were to begin with). Unless, of course, they are independently wealthy, and refuse contributions to their campaign. Most people in that position would have to take a pay cut to be president, and don't want the position.

And, for the record, I truly believe that, Democrat, Republican, or Independent, the vast majority of serious candidates are, in their hearts, patriots. I don't believe that any of them seek election with the intention of "screwing everything up". I don't believe that any of them want to see the US fall into fascism or social collapse. I don't believe any of them would "start" a war just to line their pockets. I truly believe they all are trying to do what they think is the right thing. I may not agree with their approaches, but I certainly respect and admire their conviction, their patriotism, and their work ethic.

Just my 2-cents.

Just play

Re: POLITICS AND MUSIC

And, BTW - good luck with the whole "understanding our system" thing.

There are folks with Doctorates in our system, and they can't even agree on how it works!

Just play

Re: POLITICS AND MUSIC

Hi Oldnewbie,
thank you for setting the record straight about King vs. Queen. Of course you're right.
I also appreciate you finishing what might have taken me another day or two. What I like the most about your post is the line about the vast majority of candidates being patriotic. I believe that the benefits someone gets for taking a high-powered political office don't really justify being in the crosshairs of critics during the elections, during the time of office, and then later in the history books. It takes someone truly passionate to run this gauntlet, and to actually succeed takes a saint. We haven't had one of these in the office of the President as far as I can remember. At least Bill Clinton played the sexophone -or is it saxophone?

PS: I'm actually considering becoming an American citizen ASAP, after being a "legal resident alien" for 28 years. I wanna vote this time!

Re: POLITICS AND MUSIC

Tennessee, from which country are you?
I can't help it talking and comparing US versus Europe.
Somewhere I wrote that after having surgery: putting my foot in 90°, to block it, I had so much hope to forfill my "child dream" BEING A DOC ON A CRUISE BOAT. Reason for surgery.
I have, maybe had a very strong character. This intervention had a purpose = being a lot better. Operation 100% success, but the combination foot/back "killed every single dream".
Well this really KILLED me, you are THAT close to realise a CHILD dream and so they contacted my treating Docs. Since that moment I started to understand the picture, a hard confrontation with reality, which I CAN'T ACCEPT NEVER and NEVER, I lost it all, except being overinsured, which hurts me too, BECAUSE I CAN'T ACCEPT MY CONDITION.
About the USA: can I move and live there WITHOUT a job, but getting enough money?What is needed, besides a green card? A reason for these questions?
MY USA OBSESSION

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: POLITICS AND MUSIC

gitaardocphil:  I was born and lived in Germany (for 30 years) -and I'm still a German citizen. I came to the U.S. to check out all the rumors about it being a paradise, a rich, technologically advanced country. I didn't find exactly paradise, few rich people and technology that's often lacking behind European standards -with the exception of space technology, medical sciences and computing. These areas are so experimental that they suit the American spirit very well. We don't know how it works? Let's experiment -in our garage... oops, that wasn't it. Permits? "We don't need no stinkin' permits". The day I arrived in Houston/Texas, I had exactly 25 cents in my pocket, an old beat-up station wagon, and nowhere to go. I met a lovely Texas girl. Two years later, we got married and now have a daughter (21, art student, hippie-type) and a son (24) who is a U.S. Marine. I am so damn proud of these kids and love them more than myself.

No seriously, what I did find in America is a "can do" spirit, and what we call "Freedom", including the freedom to starve to death. In my native Germany, if someone doesn't want to work and decides to just drift through life, authorities will go out of their way to help you survive. I find the American general lack of social services refreshingly "existentialist".

Besides the srewed up political and social system, of course we have the people: they come in all colors, religions, levels of education, poor, rich and most of all: always welcoming and always interested in making friends. Ever since the 9-11 attacks, security and immigration have tightened considerably, but still Millions of illegal aliens live in the U.S. as undocumented workers. Green Cards: I don't know about the exact requirements, but certain types of visas are available (not the credit card of course) for foreign workers. Doctors and nurses are always in demand. Marrying an American citizen makes you eligible for a Green Card -but you have to stay married for a certain number of years. It also doesn't make sense to get married just for a work permit. My wife of 25 years now tells everyone that we got married, because I needed a work permit...she's joking.

Best way to get familiar with the U.S.: see for yourself. Check it out in real life, not on CNN and MTV. Since the dollar is so low right now, I would take a road trip through the US this summer. Are you a Belgian citizen?
There is so much to see and learn here, the country is endless. Endless landscapes and endless opportunities for someone who is able to look beyond the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and experience for themselves this social experiment, we call America.

Play on!

Re: POLITICS AND MUSIC

Strat,

It takes someone not born here to remind me of how fortunate I am to be from and of this country.

My guitar mentor, and a very strong figure in my life, particularly when measured against the length of time I knew him, was a German citizen visiting here on a tourist visa. He married an American and they moved back to Germany (funny, huh?). His fascination with America was, as you mentioned, the diversity, and the geography.

I also feel that it is our geography that makes us so loathe to change. I will explain:

In Europe, if you drive for eight hours in one direction, you have crossed into several different countries, where several different languages are spoken, and where several different forms of currency are used (less common now, I think, with the Euro?). But different cultures and predominant religions are a matter of hours away by car for most Europeans.

In the US, I drive 8 hours to see my parents. I could drive for days (literally) and never have to use a translator, or exchange my money. While I would see different variations of our culture, the people are generally of the same ilk. Much less drastic of a difference between Californians and Virginians than there is between Spaniards and Russians. (does that make sense?)

This geographic isolation is what contributes to my opinion that there will never be a universal language, except for English. Based on how we live, we see no need to learn another language!

Again, I think one of our strongest assets is simply our geography.

Great thread.

Just play