Topic: Can't tune it

I have my Nephew's acoustic/electric here at my home, he wanted me to tune it, but for what ever the reason it will not tune up, it's an Ovation Applause AE 28. Even when the meter says it's in tune, it's not. I know it needs new strings, but is there something I'm missing, as I've never tried to tune an acoustic/electric, I have my acoustic and my electric, no problem tuning either one of those, so again, is there just something about tuning  an A/E  that I'm missing here? It has a tone and a gain on the guitar if thats any help, I'd appreciate any help, thanks in advance.

    Cam

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Re: Can't tune it

replace the strings first and then try it may need a truss rod adjustment if its a fixed bridge theres not much you can do there but I think the new strings will help a lot if that dont solve the issue take it to a music store and get it checked out smile

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Can't tune it

And make sure you are not tuning it one octave too low or high.  Sometimes this is a common mistake.

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Re: Can't tune it

I had planned on having new strings put on his guitar, the ones on it are in bad shape, I told him that might be part of the problem.

How can I tell on my korg meter if I'm an octave high or low? The green light comes on in the middle as it should when I tried to tune it.

  Cam

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Re: Can't tune it

I dont think you can tune a string an octave up without it snapping smile

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Can't tune it

OK Thanks Russel and Bensonp, I'm just gonna take it and have it restrung and looked at, thanks for your advice.

Can

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Re: Can't tune it

Sounds like it needs professionally set up. I'd take it into your local guitar store and they should be able to sort it out. This may be a total pain in the rear but it WILL be worth it.

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

8 (edited by StranSongs 2009-07-19 21:11:49)

Re: Can't tune it

Have you tuned it by ear to your own guitar ? The most likely problem is that you have tuned an octave below where you need to be. Listen to your own guitar, that will tell you if its an octave out.

The Korg will not show the octave. It's stupid, it knows an A or a C etc , but not which one !

"Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Davis

Re: Can't tune it

I would have thought is you tuned it an octave lower the tuner would not pick it up properly.

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Can't tune it

Whwn you say the tuner says it's in tune but it's not, what do you mean? It's too low or high, or is it that the chords don't sound right?

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

Re: Can't tune it

The chords don't sound right, it shows on the meter that it's in tune, but it's just simply not, it's not showing it as flat or sharp, I've tuned it right to the mark, but it's still not in tune, I have no problems with this tuner on my other guitars, I don't get it, except to try new strings, and have it looked at, but thanks for all the advice guys, I really appreciate it.

Cam

Keep a fire burning in your eyes
Pay attention to the open sky
You never know what will be coming down

Re: Can't tune it

Hey Cam - I agree with StranSongs - Try tuning it by ear with your own acoustic. The A/E aspect should not have any effect. Don't plug it in, tune it acoustically. Have your nephew or wife pluck your in-tune guitar and match the tuning with your nephews. If you get them matched and the nephews guit still sounds like crap, it's the strings. Really old strings will sound like crap even when in tune.

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Re: Can't tune it

Sounds like the intonation is out. It needs a set up.

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

Re: Can't tune it

alvee33 wrote:

Sounds like the intonation is out. It needs a set up.

Yup. If the open strings are in tune, but the fretted notes are not, there is an intonation problem - the strings are either too long (flat when fretted) or too short (sharp when fretted). On an Ovation/Applause, this would require a truss rod adjustment to fix as the bridge is not adjustable IIRC.

Good Luck!

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Re: Can't tune it

Are the strings going the correct way round the tuning post? This can make a huge difference and is the simplest and cheapest solution if wrong. It's surprising how many experienced players can get this wrong.

With a Fender type headstock, all the strings should wrap round the post anti-clockwise - i.e. the string should be in line with the centre of the headstock (underneath the post as you hold guitar in playing position).

With 3 pegs per side (Gibson Les Paul/SG/most Acoustics) the bottom 3 strings should be done as before and the top 3 opposite to that.

With Classical/Jazz guitars where the tuning post is horizontal they should go over the the top and wrap round underneath.

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Re: Can't tune it

If the guitar is in tune on all the open strings and not in tune when fretted it is a intonation problem ie. old strings,truss rod or bridge or all three, on standard head stocks the tuning pegs are wrapped counter clockwise on the E A D strings and clockwise on the G B E accept a fender type setup where all the strings go counter clockwise and even if they were wrapped in the wrong direction this would not cause the guitar to be out of tune when fretted if it is in tune open Change the strings smile

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Can't tune it

Russell_Harding wrote:

If the guitar is in tune on all the open strings and not in tune when fretted it is a intonation problem ie. old strings,truss rod or bridge or all three, on standard head stocks the tuning pegs are wrapped counter clockwise on the E A D strings and clockwise on the G B E accept a fender type setup where all the strings go counter clockwise and even if they were wrapped in the wrong direction this would not cause the guitar to be out of tune when fretted if it is in tune open Change the strings smile

Hey Russ!

Just trying to throw in the simple, first-check stuff in case that prevents people having to lose their guitar to the workshop for days/weeks.......

"........I started out just playing once a week and thought I could handle it, but nobody tells you how ADDICTIVE the guitar is, no-one tells you you're gonna need that guitar EVERY DAY!!!" big_smile

I didn't think it was clear whether there was a fretted/unfretted problem; no slight intended, mate! smile

<-----<< On an even field, only talent prevails! >>----->
   Gans Gwarak da yn dorn yu lel, gwyr lowen an golon!
        >>-----> [color=#FF0000]Rudhes[/color] hag [color=yellow]Owres[/color], Kajima <-----<<

Re: Can't tune it

Hi Upyerkilt, I've used standard tuners on my bass and they actually manage very well even though that is several octaves below standard. You need a real advanced tuner like the Boss TU2 to intelligently say what you are tuning, the rest just resolve the main note.

If you are ever bored around the house you can try clipping your contact tuner to household objects. This is how I know my electric toothbrush is in C!

RH, on my first guitar course someone turned up with their guitar perfectly in tune but one octave too high. Strings were incredibly tight but being a beginner they didn't know how they should feel. Aferall there's all that talk of developing callouses and finger strength!

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Re: Can't tune it

none taken smile I know after 50 yrs of playing a guitar some things which are actual from having encountered them over and over thru the years, keep suggesting things if you feel they will help I have been known to be wrong on occasion lol

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Can't tune it

It may be possible to tune a guitar one octave higher then standard pitch but the string tension would be so great the strings would snap in a very short time or the neck would, first it would sound like a capo on the 12th fret and since there is 40lbs of pressure at normal tuning that would double and I dont think I would wish to be around it when it explodes lol

cytania wrote:

RH, on my first guitar course someone turned up with their guitar perfectly in tune but one octave too high. Strings were incredibly tight but being a beginner they didn't know how they should feel. Aferall there's all that talk of developing callouses and finger strength!

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Can't tune it

Well Cameronl7,

Did ya sort it ?

"Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Davis

Re: Can't tune it

I use a Intelli Chromatic Tuner IMT-500 that does a great job and I find consistently that as I tune each string right on the mark then go back and double check the first (top) string I tuned is always out of tune so I go back over and double check all strings and then triple check them untill all read in tune.

Seems that on my guitar as I work my way down the strings tightening each next string can throw the string you just tuned out of tune slightly.
Triple check it and see if that is the problem.

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Re: Can't tune it

you can also try tuning open then check at the 12 frett to see if the neck .intonation is right
do the strings any guitar i work on the first thing is strings.  some people leave then on for years tuned in the closet they go bad even if you are not playing

always pickin someting

Re: Can't tune it

What rstauffe said!

When tuning I always use the 12th fret harmonic to get the open strings spot on!

<-----<< On an even field, only talent prevails! >>----->
   Gans Gwarak da yn dorn yu lel, gwyr lowen an golon!
        >>-----> [color=#FF0000]Rudhes[/color] hag [color=yellow]Owres[/color], Kajima <-----<<

Re: Can't tune it

Hi Everyone,

  I've tried all suggestions, still can't get it in tune, tomorrow, I'm taking it into the shop, the guitar, isn't mine, it's my nephew's, but I told him I'd tune it for him, so since I can't I'm gonna have it re-strung and checked out, and suprise him with it, he's a good young man, "30" years old, he had some bad luck recently, and deserves a break. and he's just now picking up the guitar for the first time, and I want it right for him. I'm gonna give him a capo a chord book to help get him started. I've gave him several sites that will help him, including "Chordie of course", and will help him as much as I can. So I'l let everyone know what comes of the guitar, thanks again everyone for all your help, advice and suggestions.

  Cam

Keep a fire burning in your eyes
Pay attention to the open sky
You never know what will be coming down