Topic: Singing

Not good.  I didn't know how bad I was until recently, when I got the new computer and recorded myself.  And what I heard from me stunk out loud. 

Any recommendations for web sites on technique. 

My biggest problems are weakness of voice and holding pitch.  I'm working on remembering how to use my diaphragm from my trumpet and tuba days.  That was a long, long time ago and I have killed many brain cells since then (and the remaining few aren't on speaking terms). 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Singing

The only thing I can think of is singing loud is like shouting if you wanted to say something to a person across the street you would speak louder then if they were standing next to you,your useing your diaphragm when you "raise your voice" the same is in singing think of it that way and you can sing soft or loud to express the feeling inside of you smile

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Singing

zurf no matter how I try to do better with my singing I always sound like a bad imitation of bob dylan.

my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman

4 (edited by micky the mooch 2009-11-18 03:57:00)

Re: Singing

ME,  I SOUND LIKE THE CAT THATS JUST GOT STOOD ON   MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOWWWWWWW!! LOL

cool Dont Stop Kid Keep Rockin'  !! cool

Re: Singing

Zurf... go back to the quote in your sig... "If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome!" - you MUST need MORE BEER!  LMAO! smile

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: Singing

mekidsmom wrote:

Zurf... go back to the quote in your sig... "If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome!" - you MUST need MORE BEER!  LMAO! smile

Now see, that's the sort of practical advice I need.  big_smile

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Singing

Case closed.  You're on your way to bigger and better things.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

Re: Singing

Zurf ,
   I have never believed that I sing well ... It always amazes me that the other singer in my band wants me to do most of the lead vocals , I can only surmise that he does'nt want to have to learn the songs , L O L ...
   One piece of advice I have always given anyone who says their singing stinks is , " just do your own songs , then how ever you do it , is the way it's supposed to sound ", L O L ... Then if someone else wants to do the song , they have to try and sing it the way you do , L O L ....
                                                                                    Jerry

" Just reading the lyrics , it's hard to hear the song , but if the words tug at the heartstrings......it's enough for now........... "

9 (edited by mekidsmom 2009-11-18 18:09:09)

Re: Singing

Ok... so actual real advice.  Let me see here.... if you need help with your breath control aka "breathing properly" or from the diaphram ... here's my memory of an actual lesson from my private voice lesson days.

First... lay on the floor on your back.  Yes... get down there ON YOUR BACK on the floor.  Put one hand on your chest (like you're gonna say the pledge) and the other on your ribcage (on the side ... thumb down fingers up... it's a bit uncomfortable, but you should get the gist).  Now, you're going to just breathe normally.  Don't think about your breathing just breathe and pay attention to what's going on.  What you should notice is that your chest is not heaving up and down (that pledge hand on top is staying pretty stable) ... but instead your ribcage is moving in and out (that side hand is moving with your body).  This is the "proper" way to breathe.  Your belly is not really supposed to move.  Some people think you are supposed to "breathe from your belly" and your belly should be expanding and contracting... NOT TRUE.  Your lungs are NOT located in your belly, they are located in your ribcage. read edit below if you don't agree with this... TUBA do you have any advice to add in here? Practice deep breathing for a little while on the floor.

Next... stand up (slowly... and even slower if you had a few beers before laying on the floor!! smile) ... place your arms out in the air palms up (like on the Titanic "I'm on top of the world!") ... gently ease your arms down to your side KEEPING your posture as it was with your arms out in the air.  This is the "correct singing posture" ...  you should now feel like your shooting your chest out there for the entire world to see (oh yeah... look at that chest... hmmm... maybe some pectoral exercises are in order?).  Ok... now keep that posture and place your hands on your chest as they were when you were laying down.  One on your heart, one on your ribcage.  BREATHE ... pay attention... remember how you were breathing when you were on the floor.  Do not heave your chest up and down but instead expand and contract your ribcage sideways.  Take some deep breaths.

Ok... now that you're all relaxed, try singing a little.  Pick a note (got a pitch pipe or something?) take a nice deep breath (from your ribcage no heaving allowed) and try to hold that note out nice and steady.  When you start to falter in pitch, it's time to stop and take another breath. 

It's possible you're having a hard time staying in tune, or in pitch because you aren't breathing well.  When your pitch starts to diminish are you noticing that you're about out of breath?  I think your original post really did address this.  Strength of voice, loss of pitch, and the fact that you're talking about breathing all tell me that this could be the problem.  I know it's not really possible to SIT in this position and play guitar, BUT once you can remember how to "breathe properly" you'll have an easier time when you are seated.  Of course... you are a "pro" with that strap and all so you COULD play standing up and sing!

Good luck!  Hope this helps (and if not... please do video yourself doing this, because I always thought it would be amusing to watch someone ELSE doing these breathing exercises!!  LOL)

.... disclaimer.... I am NOT a voice instructor and the information given here could be totally bogus, but it's how I was taught during private voice lessons...  if it is bogus, I'd like my parents to receive a refund!  I do have to say that even as a smoker of too many years, I have better breath control than quite a few people I know (my son regularly tries to have a "sing off" holding a note out until the other can't do it any longer... he refuses to take my advice on how to breathe) ... I attribute it to my lessons, course I could just have lucky lungs?  I don't think I'm an awesome singer... but when I try, I can hold a note, and I probably sound much worse when drinking even if I think I sound better.  In high school choir people either wanted to stand next to me because I would drown them out or they wanted to stand far away from me because I sang too loud and they couldn't hear themselves.  I enjoy singing Italian Arias (opera) more than any other type of music.

I do really like GSE's advice tho too... that could come in pretty handy!!  LOL!

edit: after writing all this I looked up info on breath control... all I could find is people telling you to expand and contract your belly... so, take it for what it is - maybe my teacher was wrong?  The above works for me tho!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: Singing

Hello Zurf mate,

I don't pretend to be able to sing and have had no lessons but for what I want I'm happy with my singing which seems to suit my level of guitar playing.  I like to think I'm "rustic" haha!

I experimented and found a few things which helped me.  The key of the song was very important, say a song was in the key of G (most of mine are), I found I could sing that song at 2 pitches (you'll have to bear with me on the terminoligy), I could sing it very low and very high, both seemed to go with the guitar key but the low was too low and the high was too.   

After experimenting I found the low version seemed to be "my pitch" where I seemed to be more comfortable but this was too low.  So out came the capo and I upped the key accordingly, I seem to be able to sing a key G song, in tune (ish), with the capo on the 3rd or perhaps even the 5th.  For a long time a used the capo on the 1st fret but having had feedback from my youtube site I slowely coaxed my voice higher which felt weird at first but it seems comfortable now.

My problem now is I can sing just about ok sitting crossed legged on the floor but I'm dreadful when standing! I have bought a strap for the guitar and I do practice standing and it's getting better.

Anyway, wasn't it you singing on that youtube jamming video you posted a few months back in your yard, seemed very good to me, perhaps a little rustic! haha

Crevs

Epiphone EJ200  -  Epiphone SG400  -  Fender Strat Blacktop.
Blackstar HT 40 Club  -  Vox VT30 - Behringer ACX ultracoustic 1000

Re: Singing

I sang a little backup on the chorus, but that was Jets60 singing lead. 

Thanks. Rustic.  I like it. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Singing

Ah, now that we have determined that those of us who can't sing well have a rustic voice, we can now move on to bigger and better things.  Like my strumming.  Perhaps it too, is rustic.  I'm feeling better already.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

Re: Singing

Heya Zurf,

Rustic wouldn't be so bad smile  I once had a guy tell me

" Help me please, your singing is so bad if you had a pitch correction device it would grow arms and flip you the finger for making it work so hard"

Later, Wayne P

Re: Singing

Some folks sing by Notes! I sing by letter! I open my mouth and let her go!

When the Power of Love overcomes The Love of Power the world will be a better place.

Re: Singing

I have a shitty voice. You do eventually get used to the sound of your own voice. Once that trauma fades, the only advice I would lend (and again I'm awful) is don't try too much stay within your range. Even if your range is limited.

I used to be disgusted; now I try to be amused.
Elvis Costello