Topic: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

I have had my LAG 4S100DCE acoustic guitar for about 18 months. When I first purchased it, it had a fairly low action and was quite easy to play. Recently, the action has become higher and I have been experiencing horrible fret buzz, not when I strum a chord, but when I lift my fingers off the chord to play another. Where originally the guitar was quite forgiving and nice and easy to play, now, if you don't put your fingers precisely at the end of the fret, the buzzing occurs. For instance if my fingers are in the middle of the fret. I have tightened the truss rod and also have sanded the saddle to lower the action. The playability is better but the buzzing (when lifting fingers off the strings) is awful. There is no buzzing on playing the actual chord so the action doesn't seem too low. I can't quite understand how a guitar can be a joy to play and then change so dramatically. I also don't understand why I would need to lower the saddle when it was ok to begin with. What would have happened to my guitar to make this necessary. I am very careful with the guitar and only play it at home. I consider myself quite a novice really and am still struggling with barre chords, especially on my acoustic (not quite so bad on electric). Can anybody give me advice on how to get rid of this buzzing? Has anybody else experienced the same problem and rectified it? I would really appreciate any help on this matter.

Thanks in anticipation.

Bill Green.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Which strings are buzzing?  You can take a piece of paper and put it between the string and frets and move it around the fretboard while plucking the string until the buzz is muted... This will usually give you a good idea of were it's originating... Could be that a fret has come loose and risen some causing buzz but it sounds more like the nut slots are too deep if it goes away when the string is fretted... Heading out to work now but will chime in more the afternoon....

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Welcome Bill!!!

You might have gone in the wrong direction with the truss rod and saddle adjustment. To get it back to normal you might have to undo your tweaks. Has the guitar been exposed to any temp/humidity changes? Listen to Pix, he knows what he's talking about. You need to try and isolate the buzz first.


Good luck!!

Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Interesting... ever since I changed my saddle it seems my B string is too low and "buzzing" a bit.  It's quite annoying... and I almost ALWAYS use a capo so I'm sure that has a LOT to do with it.  I think the whole nut slot being worn makes a lot of sense in my situation (or it could be the compensated saddle)... so I'd listen to Pix as it sounds like he may be on the right track!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

The most affected string seems to be the b string but the e and g strings are quite bad. The buzzing seems to affect the open g more than any other chord. The buzzing occurs on all notes along the neck. I live in Brisbane (Australia) and we have been experiencing unusually cold and dry conditions so I would say, yes the guitar has definitely been exposed to temp and humidity changes in the last couple of months. Could this make a difference as it is normally very humid in the summer months. All the frets are quite secure. I could try loosening the truss rod but then the frets will become higher and more difficult for me to play. I don't think this will make a difference as the frets were buzzing before I had tightened the truss rod. Maybe I should wait until the summer to see if it is any better! As far as isolating the buzz is concerned, the buzzing occurs pretty much anywhere on the neck, unless a absolutely spot on with my playing and I lift my fingers off the fret very quickly.

Thanks for all your help, I really appreciate it.

Bill.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Hi Mekidsmom,

Does the string buzz when you play a note? The strings on my guitar are ok when I strum a chord or play a note. It's when I actually lift my finger off the frets that I get the buzz. The strings are really vibrate on the fret as I lift my finger off, even if I lift my fingers off very quickly, there is still a slight buzz as the string vibrates. Hope all this makes sense.

Bill.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

When I played nights in bars, my strings wore the nut grooves down too low and string buzz became a problem. For a temporary fix I folded a bar napkin four times and tore off a small piece to insert between the string and the nut groove. This raised the strings enough to stop the buzz until I replaced the nut.
toots

We pronounce it "Guf Coast".
Ya'll wanna go down to the Guf?

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Just out of curiosity, How often would you have to change the nut on a guitar?

"Where you begin doesn't matter. Your willingness to start is what counts."
Without music life would be a mistake.
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Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

my buzzing seems to be when I'm fretting... I feel like I have to fret the strings harder now than I did before (or be more careful to have my fingers placed right AT the frets... but then, maybe a string change could help this issue too, I think I'll try that today).  I've wondered if maybe the saddle is just too high but the strings don't LOOK like they're far away from the fretboard and I did measure everything when I replaced the saddle.

Toots... your suggestion makes sense.  I'll keep that in mind for when I'm playing w/o capo

Steelstrings... of course I can't answer, but I can comment on what I've heard which is... when using a capo a LOT (like I do) you'll wear the nut down faster.  This is primarily why I didn't bother changing the nut when I did the saddle and pins.

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

10 (edited by flester 2011-07-12 14:44:21)

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

steelstrings wrote:

Just out of curiosity, How often would you have to change the nut on a guitar?

Not necessarly ever, though they can eventually wear out

OR

what MEKIDSMOM said

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

A lifted fret may be the culprit causing the unfretted buzz which is usually caused by climate changes that cause the neck woods to expand just enough for a fret to move. As for buzz while fretting it could be due to a neck adjustment. MkM if you've had your guitar for over a year it may be time to tweak the trussrod to straighten the neck back up. Another thing could be fret wear which can be releveled easily by a exprienced guitar tech.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

How is the neck set now? Flat or with some relief (curve)?  Sight down the neck and you want a "very" slight up bow.  How much of an up bow depends on how level your frets/fretboard is and your style of play so it's impossible for me to say how much. You can run a guitar at 0 relief (totally flat) with low action but it has to be a perfectly flat fretboard... Chances are you'd need to get the frets professionally leveled. While you're sighting down it be sure to look for any twists or any high spots like where the fretboard meets the body. Examine your frets real closely and make sure they all are flush and tight all the way across the board.
  The truss rod is only supposed to be used to set neck relief, not as a way of lowering the action.  The action is adjusted at the saddle. Hmmm.... Speaking of the saddle, there's also a chance it's uneven... Measure the action of the 1st and 6th string at the 12 fret and lets see how that looks too.

These are real simple videos I did quickly for tony when helping him set up his guitar. They're very casual but you may find some helpful info in them... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjXMH7Uw8G4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KdBZ3vL5ZY

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

I'll throw something else out here. Sometimes when I'm playing a faster tempo song I sometimes fudge my chord changes so the last up strum sorta has a buzz to it. Seems to happen mostly when I scratch,mute,chop, whatever you want to call it. Anyway, my point is that maybe it could be a playing thing a not a guitar thing.

Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

The last time I had a buzz on an open string, I found that one of the tuning keys was a little loose and a washer was rattling (this was on a Martin ).  As already mentioned, there's a good chance that the nut might need a little work or replaced.  At times when I've set up a guitar using Nashville high tuning, the larger grooves cut in the nut for the wound strings are just too big for the smaller gauge strings so they tend to buzz a little.  I'm guessing the same thing would happen if the nut were a little worn.

DE

I want to read my own water, choose my own path, write my own songs

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

The neck has a very small relief which seems ok. All the frets seem nice and level with no obvious problems there. I might not be explaining my situation very well. The buzzing doesn't occur on any open string but occurs on the fret that I am playing only, as I lift my finger off I get a buzz only on that particular fret as I release the pressure on the string. I quite agree with zguitar that it might be a playing thing, I can accept that. It's just that when I first played the guitar it had none of these problems and was very forgiving. Now I have to be absolutely precise in my playing and play a chord/note right on the fret to minimise the buzzing. It makes it quite nerve-racking to play rather than nice and relaxing as it used to be. The strange thing is, I used to play a yamaha and that was fine at first but then developed the same problem as this one. I sold that and bought my LAG which I loved. It was as different as chalk and cheese to playing my Yamaha. Maybe the answer lies there somewhere. Thanks again.

Bill.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Hi Bill and welcome,

I would suggest that you get a friend to play your guitar and you play his to determine whether it is the guitar or a technique fault.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Good suggestion Roger!  Since I'm having a similar problem, I thought I'd chime in here that I checked my string height and had sighted down the neck as Pix suggested.  Sure enough, the neck had some amazing curve to it.  I adjusted my truss rod (ever so gently a little at a time) and then pulled the saddle out again and filed that down a bit more.  Then, I changed to lighter strings.  My buzzing seems to have subsided SOME.  I think what's left is ABSOLUTELY technique and I'm going to play around with my husband's guitar to day to see if I'm getting the same sounds.  I think I'm quite lazy when I'm playing.  I do think it is entirely possible that my saddle is/was slightly uneven too. 

Bill, I feel your pain.  I'm heading to the Martin Guitar factory for a visit tomorrow and quite tempted to fall in love with one and give away this one.  LOL!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Thanks for your replies. I have actually played a friends guitar, a Takamine. It seemed much easier to play than mine and the action seemed slightly lower than mine. I didn't experience the same buzz, although I only played it for a short while. It felt like my LAG felt when I first bought it, nice and easy to play. I am willing to admit though that my technique could be adding to the problem. I have only small hands and I started playing my guitar quite late in life, well very late in life (at 56!!).

Mekidsmom, it seems like you are having similar problems to me. It's quite frustrating isn't it. I just want to practice and the buzzing is a sort of side issue that stops any enjoyment. I guess I'll concentrate on my electric guitar till the more humid summer months and see if that makes a difference. Enjoy your visit to the Martin factory, sounds very interesting, don't forget to take your credit card!! Bill.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Put your finger right up next to the fret when playing and release straight up.  See if that helps.  If it doesn't, then I suggest crying uncontrollably while looking at guitar shop web sites until your significant other (if you have one) recognizes the need for you to purchase a different guitar. 

You may also want to try a humidifier in your guitar. 

My guess is that it is the nut.  I say that because I have no skill whatsoever at this sort of thing and it's a wild guess on my part.  But thinking about how a guitar works, it kind of makes sense. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Out of curiosity, Does it do it when capoed? Any wear/divots showing on the frets under the ones giving you trouble? Sorry for all the questions but this will bug me too until it's sorted big_smile

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Hi again. Yes Zurf, it does make it better when I put my finger right next to the fret, it doesn't eliminate it entirely though. I am tending to mute certain chords with the palm of my right hand just before I lift my fingers off, this obviously will stop the buzzing, it works but it's not always desirable. I don't own a capo so have never tried playing the guitar with one on. It could be worth giving that a try. The frets are all very smooth, the guitar isn't that old and I tend to really look after it so there are no obvious signs of wear on the frets. With all the good advice that has been given to me, the thing that is starting to make the most sense is the humidity factor. As I mentioned before, we are experiencing very cool and dry conditions in Brisbane at the moment. Brisbane is famous for it's high humidity (similar to Florida) in the summer months. This problem does seem to have occurred at the onset of our winter. I have recently restrung the guitar thinking that this might help. The strings are Elixir polyweb custom light (.011-.052). Are any guitar strings more susceptible to buzzing than others? Sorry Guitar Pix. I hope I'm not causing you any sleepless nights! I do appreciate yours and everyone else's help and advice.

Thanks to all, Bill.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

As a postscript to my problem, I have been playing my friends Takamine guitar and noticed straight away the the nut was lower than my LAG guitar. This, I found, made it much easier to play. Consequently, I found I was able to concentrate more on my finger positions when playing chords, rather than anticipating any fretbuzz. This relaxed me more and I found the fretbuzz was not an issue. So, in summing up, I will need to adjust the nut on my guitar and make sure the action is right for my comfort. I never realised that there are so many variables to being able to play a guitar and what a difference string height can make. Thanks again for all your input and help. Bill.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

well, after this past weekend I can say... my strings are still too high.  Pix actually handled my guitar but only for a minute and straight away said that the action was quite high... so I'm off to the sanding block some more.  Interestingly enough, I didn't notice a lot of buzz over the weekend after the little bit of lowering I had already done. 

So Bill, I think you and I are simply in need of some more tweeking to our guitars.  No doubt a professional set up would help, but that takes all the fun out of it!  LOL!  BEST WISHES!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Hi "Mekidsmom". Well I sanded down the nut on my guitar this morning and, of course, sanded it too far!! I've now padded it out a bit and it's fine. I used my friends Takamine guitar as a guide for string height and now it is exactly the same as his. The difference is very noticeable now and it's much easier to play. I can now concentrate on my finger positions as it is so much more relaxing to play and any fretbuzz that I was experiencing is greatly diminished. It's still a bit buzzy on barre chords but that is just me, still struggling with those but all in all, I'm very happy with it now. So good luck with your sanding, I'm sure once you get it right it will make all the difference as it did mine. Nice videos on your website. Good luck, Bill.

Re: FRETBUZZ when lifting fingers off strings

Oh good!  A happy ending. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude