Topic: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

Hi all. I am very new to the guitar. Today is my 6th day. I'm using a Epiphone Special 2. Since the second day when I tried to to the barre F, I cannot do the barre part. When I do finally manage to barre the whole first fret, my hand is tensed up, and I couldn't put my other fingers in position.

My friends say keep practicing and I will get it, but I really feel like I have my hand in the wrong position and there is a lot of tension.

Any advice or links would be awesome.

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

On day 6, it seems that trying to master barre chords might be a bit much.  Perhaps you should slow down and start over, trying to master some basic open chords first?  A favorite among many chordie members is www.justinguitar.com ... good luck, and welcome to Chordie!!

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What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

Thanks for the advice:) I was thinking I should wait on these too, but I have now about 26 hours playing in only those 6 days. I know 8 or 10 chords.

I went to http://www.morphis.com/guitar_lessons/ and worked through all the lessons. Pull-offs need lots of work, but barre chords is the only thing I cannot do AT ALL. No matter how much time I put into setting up the chord, always at least 1-2 strings are muted. which is why I want to work on it... I will start working through this site today.

You said I should work more on basic chords... I know: A, Am, C, D, Dm, E, Em, G, and an easier F chord than the barre. Is this a good base to start with?

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

The one tip I can give you is to learn all your simple chords, Am, Em, E, etc using your 2nd, 3rd and 4th finger as opposed to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd finger.  When you get used to that, then your barre finger will always be free to barre.  I learned using the first three fingers for open chords and it is very hard for me to change after all these years.  You are new enough to start this from the beginning before you develop bad habits.

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Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

Hi Will
I checked it out and that's great looking guitar.  Welcome to Chordie!  Your friends are right it will just get better over time.  Meantime, when trying barre chords remember to pinch with both the thumb and index finger.  Not just pressing with index finger.  Also you may find putting a capo on the 3rd fret will bring your hand close enough to get the feel of it better early on.  Then move the capo as your strength and agility increases.  Good luck.
Steve

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

Thanks guys for the advice. This justinguitar.com is WAY better than the guide I whipped through in my first few days playing.

Bensonp, I'm very interested in what you said, because logically it makes a lot of sense. But it is opposite to everything else I read/watch... Does anyone else recommend this?

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

Barring all six strings, even on an electric guitar will give you a cramp right in the center of your palm sooner or later. If your hands are not super tiny, you can make a "cheater" F configuration and bring your palm right up to the back of the neck and curl you thumb over the top to mash the sixth string. If you can learn this you will have relief from cramping.
toots

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Ya'll wanna go down to the Guf?

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

Hello will236, I am with bensonp on this, learn to use your 2nd,3rd,4th fingers. This is not a bad way to play a G chord as well, it makes the change to a C chord quite easy I found.
You seem to be prgressing very well after only 6 days, take your time and everything will fall into place and you will wonder what you made such a fuss about.
Cheers
Bushy

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"Quincy Jones"

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

Hi Will, and Welcome to Chordie!

  I also agree with Bensonp on the 234 chord fingering.... kind of like forgetting that you even have an index finger.  Sure you are going to have a little trouble getting the darn "pinky" to do what you want it to at first, but later on you will be thankful to have that little guy working for you.   When you get that barre up to condition, it will open up the fretboard to a rainbow of musical tones that you can't get with only "open" chords.  Also on the barre, you are going to find that it is less important to clamp all the strings but rather the strings 1, 5 &6, as the other fingers will likely have those down in their respective positions anyway, you won't have to hold as much pressure and can let that index finger take more of a natural curve.

  Keeping the neck high and your thumb centered on the back of the neck eases stress on the tendons where they pass through the wrist bones as well, greatly reducing fatigue and possibility of painful injury.  Like any physical activity that you are not used to, it is important to do your "warmup" and stretching exercises, and take frequent breaks.  I think justinguitar.com covers that in one of his beginning videos, so check him out and pay attention.... he knows his stuff.

  Again Welcome to Chordie, and have fun with it!

Take Care;
Doug

"what is this quintessence of dust?"  - Shakespeare

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

It sound to me like you are trying to learn all the chords at once. There are a lot of songs that have just three or four chords and if you already know GCand D, or EA and B you can play them. I'd stick to some of these untill you work up a little strength and dexterity in your fingers. I don't want to discourage you from the barre, I just spent a lot of time in my beginning trying to learn ALL the chords instead of enjoying what I found easy. That can be a discouraging route. Try to find songs you want to play that have the easy chords with only one hard chord in the bridge, and slowly work your way into playing those Barre chords.

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

I agree with Craig. Im still perfecting the easy chords and I pick out songs from this website which use the chords. I then practice one song at a time until I think its right. Earlier on, I made the mistake of trying to learn too many songs at once and found it confusing. I am building up my Songbook nicely and feel confident playing the songs I have learnt to play right through. The barre chords will come later when I feel ready and able enough to play them. There are thousands of songs that can be played using the basic chords and its a great feeling when each one is perfected enough to play it in front of an audience.

cheers.
gag.

Strats Rule Forever !!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

bensonp wrote:

The one tip I can give you is to learn all your simple chords, Am, Em, E, etc using your 2nd, 3rd and 4th finger as opposed to the 1st, 2nd and 3rd finger.  When you get used to that, then your barre finger will always be free to barre.  I learned using the first three fingers for open chords and it is very hard for me to change after all these years.  You are new enough to start this from the beginning before you develop bad habits.

I can attest to this being a KEY component to learning your barre chords FAST!!
i started out using fingers 12&3 to do my open chords but my online teacher (Marty Schwartz) recommended using the Middle, Ring and Pinky fingers for open chords.

Mon-o-man did that change my world!!! I could switch from barre to open chords ultra fast!!
And it made my hand stronger as well, which helped me when I started doing scales!


Dm

"Talent instantly recognizes genius,
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."

-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

Try practising bar chords further up the scale. An A or a G chord will be easier to hold down than the F because they are further away from the nut.

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Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

i've been playing barre chords for 40 years now (up-to 4 hours a night) and i've never suffered with cramp, except once when i got it between my thumb and forefinger (after i got hit by another guitarist as we passed on stage!)
i've always used the forefinger to barre, sometimes i leave the top string out it depends if i need the bass note. i cant get my thumb around to hold the E string anyway!
capo's are good, but they make you lazy. i only use one for tonal effect.

phill

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

tubatooter1940 wrote:

Barring all six strings, even on an electric guitar will give you a cramp right in the center of your palm sooner or later. If your hands are not super tiny, you can make a "cheater" F configuration and bring your palm right up to the back of the neck and curl you thumb over the top to mash the sixth string. If you can learn this you will have relief from cramping.
toots

And if you can master the technique that Tubatooter described above...
You will be halfway to learning to play like Jimi Hendrix did.

=]
Dm

"Talent instantly recognizes genius,
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."

-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle

16 (edited by icecubetray3pak 2010-02-16 02:17:16)

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

I'm a "long time listener, first time caller".  I haven't played in decades and am just starting again.  In regards to the Bensonp tip about learning 1st position chords with the 234 fingers,  I would like to repectfully disagree (just to show my Irish).  While it makes sense if you're going to transition to barre chords, if you're strumming the 1st position chords, the pinky finger is the only link to the sus4 and the 7th and also the "walk down" on the low (E A )strings.
I like to keep my index finger in contact the G string as much as possible.  Every instruction book or fingering chart has the index finger on the G string for the E and the D, but not for the A.  If you play the A chord with the index finger on the G, bird finger on the D and ring finger on the B, all you have to do is slide/pivot the index finger.  (Play Gloria by Them and see how easy it is). 
If you're using the barre for electric rock or blues, you still use the pinky to do the chunka-chunka Chuck Berry lick.
Anyway, I think I got carried away.

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

will236 wrote:

Thanks for the advice:) I was thinking I should wait on these too, but I have now about 26 hours playing in only those 6 days. I know 8 or 10 chords.

I went to http://www.morphis.com/guitar_lessons/ and worked through all the lessons. Pull-offs need lots of work, but barre chords is the only thing I cannot do AT ALL. No matter how much time I put into setting up the chord, always at least 1-2 strings are muted. which is why I want to work on it... I will start working through this site today.

You said I should work more on basic chords... I know: A, Am, C, D, Dm, E, Em, G, and an easier F chord than the barre. Is this a good base to start with?

Hi Will

belated welcome to chordie and a big thank you! 

I've had a guitar for a few years now and started slow and steady, learned the chords i needed to 'play' the songs i like.  That's all I've done so far.  Just checked out the morphis site and finger exercises and note playing are now in my immediate future cool !

don't worry about the barre, it'll come, just needs practice... B7 is the one to watch out for lol

good luck, good times cool

I'm the son of rage and love

18 (edited by Phill Williams 2010-02-16 15:56:42)

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

bonedaddy mentions B7th as a chord to watch out for...why? there are several ways to play every chord all a player needs to do is find them, then the easiest one and finally the one that sounds best for the piece they're playing. it all comes with time, experience and practice. a lot of people get problems with "B minor", i don't understand why, it's just A minor up two frets with a barre!

icecubetray3pack mentions "A" chord shape, here's a tip and i know a lot of players use it, instead of using 3 fingers to play "A", use just one across all 3 strings. it will take a bit of practice, but once you get it it will help with barre chords, and your half way there to play "F sharp minor", (as used in Pretty Woman). as for muting strings, well you'll get that, sometimes it even adds to the effect.

try playing "F" without barring at all, don't play the bottom E string, but play the top E, it gives you "F major 7th", and fills in the sound and gives an extra dimension...i often play "G" the same way, it will give you "G6th" try it.

phill

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

Wow im glad i found this post as im the same cant barre chords yet but am playing with index finger as my first
so will make a quik change with this before i get to caught up with using these fingers.

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Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

will236 wrote:

Thanks guys for the advice. This justinguitar.com is WAY better than the guide I whipped through in my first few days playing.

Bensonp, I'm very interested in what you said, because logically it makes a lot of sense. But it is opposite to everything else I read/watch... Does anyone else recommend this?

Absolutely.  Almost every chord you learn at the nut can be played anywhere on the neck so long as you can get all four fingers involved.  Freeing up that index finger frees up the rest of the fretboard.

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Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

icecubetray3pak wrote:

I'm a "long time listener, first time caller".  I haven't played in decades and am just starting again.  In regards to the Bensonp tip about learning 1st position chords with the 234 fingers,  I would like to repectfully disagree (just to show my Irish).  While it makes sense if you're going to transition to barre chords, if you're strumming the 1st position chords, the pinky finger is the only link to the sus4 and the 7th and also the "walk down" on the low (E A )strings.
I like to keep my index finger in contact the G string as much as possible.  Every instruction book or fingering chart has the index finger on the G string for the E and the D, but not for the A.  If you play the A chord with the index finger on the G, bird finger on the D and ring finger on the B, all you have to do is slide/pivot the index finger.  (Play Gloria by Them and see how easy it is). 
If you're using the barre for electric rock or blues, you still use the pinky to do the chunka-chunka Chuck Berry lick.
Anyway, I think I got carried away.

It's a context thing for me.  If I know I'm going to change to a bar chord next, I'll play the open chord with the 234; otherwise just use the standard fingering (particularly if you're doing the folky "wiggly finger" stuff on your sus chords.  Learning the open chords both ways, so you can dive-bomb the changes to and from either one will really open up your playing.

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Re: Tips for proper form for barre F chord? (And other barre chords)

I waited till I'd mastered all the open chords before barre chords, now I'm working on some jazz chords. It is a nightmare! I don't know how those jazz guitarists do it!

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