Topic: Diminished chords

I am not really a guitarist, but I do a lot of arranging and some composing and I like to include guitar fingerboard diagrams in my scores.  I have a chart of these diagrams that I got online somewhere some time ago, and I just noticed that every diminished chord in this chart includes the 7th.  It is not mentioned in the chord label.  For instance Edim is one label, but it should really have been Edim7dim.  Is that something peculiar about guitar chords?  Do all diminished chords on a guitar include the dimished 7th?

Re: Diminished chords

Hi Dale, welcome to Chordie?

I'm no great guitar technician but I found your question very interesting. I had a quick check on the resources page to find the chord chart which shows the A diminished shape; (from the 6th string,)  F#, C, A, D#. This is the standard diminished chord shape and can be transposed all the way up the fret board to achieve whichever diminished chord you are looking for. This shape can also be used for F#dim, Cdim, or D#dim.
I've been playing for over 50 years and this rule has been a mainstay for me when writing or reading copy.

Hope this helps?

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Re: Diminished chords

Hi Dale, and welcome to Chordie!

In simple terms, a diminished 3-note (triad) guitar chord is simply any minor chord, with a flat 5th note. If I could describe the sound of a diminished chord with one word, it would be "mysterious". Here's a link to webpage which I hope you'll find as helpful as I have:

http://www.fretjam.com/diminished-guitar-chords.html

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Re: Diminished chords

Tenement Funster - I know very well what diminished chords are.  My question was concerning using a fretboard diagram in my music scores to represent them for guitarists.  A chart of fretboard diagrams I got off the internet shows a diagram for each of the 12 possible diminished chords, but the notes given on these diagrams all included 4 notes:  The root, the 3rd, the 5th (yes it is flatted thats what makes it diminished) and the 7th (also diminished).  Yet the labels on these diagrams were merely Adim, Edim, Bdim, etc.  Not Adim7, Edim7 or Bdim7. 

Phil Williams - I don't know what you mean by the term " shape " .  The notes you have listed, F#, C, A & D# are the notes which make up a D#dim7 chord.  D# is the root, F# is the minor 3rd, A is the diminished 5th and C is the diminished 7th.  An Adim7 chord would consist of A(root) C(3rd) Eb(5th) and Gb(7th) not necessarily in that order.

So what I really need to know is, Am I wasting my time looking for chord diagrams for diminished chords without the 7th?

Re: Diminished chords

Short answer....yes

By chord shape I meant the shape your fingers go into to get the diminished chord. You say the chord I've mentioned is F#dim as F# is the root, well any of the notes in the chord can be the root depending on the key. eg...if you want to add a Cdim when playing in the key of C this shape is the one you'd use. Or A or D# in their respective keys. As a guitarist it seems simple and straightforward to me.

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Re: Diminished chords

You might try searching for "diminished triad chord charts" instead of "diminished chords." I did some quick lookin' and found this, which can easily be translated into a chord chart. http://hubguitar.com/fretboard/diminished-triads

I think the reason for the 7ths is that the half-diminished and diminished 7s are more common in jazz than diminished triads.

Guitar chord notation is pretty straightforward, certainly not as nuanced as standard notation, so it might be easier for you to spend 1/2 hour learning how to create chord charts vs. pulling images from Google.

7 (edited by dale.erwin 2018-06-05 17:50:26)

Re: Diminished chords

Phill Williams wrote:

Short answer....yes

By chord shape I meant the shape your fingers go into to get the diminished chord. You say the chord I've mentioned is F#dim as F# is the root, well any of the notes in the chord can be the root depending on the key. eg...if you want to add a Cdim when playing in the key of C this shape is the one you'd use. Or A or D# in their respective keys. As a guitarist it seems simple and straightforward to me.

I did NOT say that!!  I said it was a D# diminished seventh chord and D# is the root.  Your statement is entirely wrong.  An F# diminished chord contains the notes F# (the root), A (the minor 3rd) and C (the diminished fifth) if you add the 7th it would be Eb (diminished 7th) or it could be E making it a minor 7th and consequently the chord then would be considered "half diminished".  The notes in a C diminished chord are C (the root), Eb (the minor third) and Gb (the diminished 5th) and if you want to add the diminished 7th that would be Gbb (double flat).  Key has nothing to do with which notes make up a chord.  For example, a G major chord will always consist of G (the root), B (the major 3rd) and D (the perfect fifth) no matter what the key of the piece is.  Granted, this chord will be out of place is some keys, but it is very common in the key of G major where it is the tonic chord, the keys of C major and C minor where it is the dominant chord, and the key of D major where it is the subdominant chord.  Though not as common, it can also be found in the key of E minor where it is a III chord, A minor where it is a VII chord.

Re: Diminished chords

Bbb as the 7 on that cdim7, not Gbb smile

Re: Diminished chords

Baldguitardude wrote:

Bbb as the 7 on that cdim7, not Gbb smile

Did I say Gbb?  I can't even find it now.  You're right.  C(root), Eb(minor 3rd), Gb(diminished 5th), Bbb (diminished 7th).

Re: Diminished chords

i was thinkig about music as a way to learn, do You have any experience in that ?     

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