Topic: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

IS"NT IT A STRANGE TOPIC?
At first sight yes, what the h** is this topic doing here.
THIS TOPIC ar SECOND SIGHT MEANS MORE THAN YOU THINK.
You can think that it is not belonging here, BUT IT BELONGS HERE, because of some crucial medical advise.
Just think about the fact that your fingertips start to be, sometimes extremely painful, causing problems. Here: no harm done, it happened or happens to almost all of us. So what can you get, playing instruments, like violin and here of course the guitar.
THIS IS A REAL DIFFICULT TOPIC, BUT I THOUGHT THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT, JUST BECAUSE MOST OF US DON'T PAY ATTENTION, OR IGNORE THIS PROBLEM.

1) Singers: sound quality of the voice comes from the larynx, tongue, lips, palate, pharynx, nasal cavity, quit a combination. Just think of a common cold, coughing, and nasal problems. This a hard one for a MD. Other people can be silent, but a singer? If he continues to sing, he risks even to develop nodules on the vocal chords. Needless to say, smoking is extremely damaging to oral, lung, and throat mucosa and has to be avoided.
Of course, there is a treatment, or extra help to stay singing: Cortisone, Inhalations with Eucalyptus
still there is only one solution: DON'T SING.

2) Instrumental musicians are a special risk group for repetitive motion injuries, you play guitar, when you play a chord JUST LOOK AT YOUR HAND USED TO TAKE CHORDS. It is an unnatural  position, so evident that you never look how that hand is twisted around the neck. I wrote: repetitive motions, or (I prefer) movements. The fact that, when playing guitar, you make repetitive movements can cause a "tendinitis", an inflammation of a tendon. Electric bass guitar players have an even greater likelihood of problems. Plucking versus bowing is more difficult on fingers, and the thicker strings of bass guitars are more difficult to pluck than those on lead guitars. Size and weight of instrument are problematic, even with shoulder straps.
All guitarists use hyperflexion of wrists, and flexion of left fingers across strings, causing tension problems. The size of the players versus their instruments may cause difficulties.
Nerve entrapments are common, see again the "specific" unnatural position.
Guitar players will initially notice tingling, heaviness, coldness, tightness, or lack of flexibility in fingers or hands. If these problems are ignored, the result may become a nerve root compression in the neck. Carpal, median, cubital, and ulnar nerves are all subject to entrapment problems. In English: problems with nerves, caused by a kind of irritation, and even, still ignoring it, finally compression. Typical: THE CARPAL TUNNEL syndrome, and leading to surgery, if again ignored. Another important fact is a chronic back problem caused by playing in the same position for hours. Try to stand right and play a Gibson guitar, if it is a hobby, you will feel "your back, after 30-60 minutes.
CONCLUSION: ALWAYS NERVE/MUSCULAR, BUT I AM THE LAST PERSON TO SAY THAT THIS IS COMMON AND FOR ALL GUITAR PLAYERS. If playing guitar is a hobby, it is easier to rest.
BUT if you live from playing guitar, it can be a catastrophe.
OK guys, don't panic at all, it doesn't occur in 100%, it is more "bad luck". Doctors will treat the
guitar player, by administrating injections, painkillers...
DRUMMERS seem to have lesser problems, I think because their muscles are developing, and so they keep the right balance.

WOW, this one took me 3 hours. But I really hope that you appreciate this topic, because nobody stands still about medical problems. If hobbyist: easy to rest or playing less, Professional artists; this is another "thing".
I would be pleased if guitar (bass included) players, singers can provide suggestions, or other problems.
I REPEAT AGAIN: THIS IS CAUSED BY REPETITIVE MOVEMENTS.

SGinCYQX, very clever, he mentioned the fact that you can treat some medical problems. I DID write advise about that point. I broke my wrist in 1988 and after an X-ray the found an 3IMPACTION FRACTURE". When you are falling, you will reach in a reflex your hand (my left hand) you can break your wrist. An impact fracture occurs when my wrist bones entered in my fore arm bones. Better to understand: you jump from 5 metres and land on your feet. The most common fracture you will see, is one bone that enters in another. My wrist: once the splint or cast was removed, I had to go to a physiotherapist, I never went, and I discovered a strange fact, that playing the guitar, and using your left hand to "create" a chord, it was really hard, but AGAIN: Don't cross the pain "border". Stop before the pain starts to be worse, and it depends from person to person, how fast it will heal and more important to play my beloved guitar.
I am convinced that I wrote it here, and being busy to write this correct AND to explain everything not in MD terminology, resulting in adding, deleting, adding.. but I do hope that guitar players (I mentioned the other musicians too) is able to learn something. It surely don't happen 100%, 75% is closer. BUT THANKS SGinCYQX for noticing it. It took me a few hours, and the edit/delete was used a lot. IF YOU BREAK YOUR LEFT HAND: I AM STILL CONVINCED THAT THIS IS THE BEST TREATMENT,AFTER REMOVING THE SPLINT. NEVER TRESPASS YOUR PAIN LIMIT, and this goes together with a lot of other problems

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

Happy Sunday Morning to you Docs,

This is one of the reasons i have to change my guitar? when i practise
for to long, i get  a real sore shoulder. Ive been looking at smaller bodied Guitars. I do hope this is my answer to this problem.

Yes i also had singers nodules. Lost the E range in my vocals because of them.

Good Topic Docphil.

Old Doll.

Why Blend in with the Crowd ? When you were made to stand out !

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

i remember days when i could hardly sleep cuz of the pain in my arm and shoulder.... and wrist.... but i played non stop when i first started, and papa's epi was WAY too big for a twelve  year old kid. I know Im gonna have a time when i start getting older, but you know i guess thats just the price you pay...

All You Need is Love smile

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

Doll and Rebel, I really appreciate what you write. It is SO underestimated and SO important at the same time. Even being a doc, I neglected these problems.
I forgot one thing: in 1988 I broke my wrist and in stead of following physiotherapy, I used (my left hand) this method, and I really saw a progression. WHEN PROBLEMS, LIKE PAIN, NEVER PASS THAT LIMIT. IT IS A SIGNAL PRODUCED BY YOUR BODY.
I hope to help a lot of people with this topic, it is a lot more common than you all think.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

Opposite here. Playing is actually helping my fretting hand heal. I had a tendon repair done a few months ago, and the tendon is scarred. Every time I play, the tissue gets looser and looser. Unfortunately, it's not enough. I have a tendon release scheduled for next month.

"You have to get over the love of power, and enjoy the power of love, in order to know peace."
-Jimi Hendrix.

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

SGinCYQX: Thanks a lot for noticing it. This topic is far the most long topic, and I like to know how many people do have problems by playing guitar. I also think that I forgot to write about your shoulder --> pain ---> problems. I t is called "Rotator Cuff ( a word used  because it concerns 4 muscles) Syndrome, It starts with very little lesions in the tendons, followed by calcium particles in that shoulder, together forming a bigger calcification, AGAIN CAUSED BY REPETITIVE MOVEMENTS.

Thanks to SGinCYQX 's " eagle eyes", I added this again, even when I noticed that I did mention this, answering on a question, or a fact written by Old Doll and Last_Rebel. I did write it at first, but I deleted it in the heat of the battle. Thanks to you, I wrote it now, in the first topic.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

7 (edited by badeye 2007-10-29 10:15:17)

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

Hello all. Bieng a carpenter for 28 years the shoulders
take abuse from hammering nails as it is so repetedive. Like
Last Rebel said, "Thats the price you pay". Very rarley it stops me from playing, but once in a while the pain is to much to play guitar. Also can feel a bit of arthritis setting
in these knarly hands of mine. I guess you can't stop getting old. I say think positive and stay as young as you can.

Have a great day....Badeye.

one caper after another

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

Leiven,
You and i have something in common. We both were involved in very serious accidents. Yours a car, mine a boat. May 30, 1987, Claytor Lake, Virginia, I was riding in the back of a fast, powerful water ski boat. The steering cable suddenly broke loose and threw me out of the boat and into the direct path of the spinning propellor. It hit my left hand and arm. It was horrific. I was studing classical guitar, 20 years old and knew exactly what I wanted to do with my life. I had 13 reconstructive surgeries at the University of Virginia Trauma Center and they were able to save all of my arm and hand minus my left thumb and inner palm. 7 long months went by while my graphs took and the inner parts of my arm mended and then finally I was able to pick up my lifes love(guitar) once again. It was very different though.....

I had to switch my playing from right handed to left handed. The doctors told me I should find a new instrument to play. I told them they were freakin' insane. Years and tears have passed and experiment after experiment I endeavoured into. I had to invent a pick formation that would stay on my badly injured and minimal functioning left hand. I glued a thumb pick, a finger pick, and a flat pick together and slide it over the pointer and middle fingers of my left hand. I do not have the ability to grip with my left hand so this pick system works nicely.

I am unable to play the complex finger picking classical songs I played in my teens and early 20's but my overall musicianship has grown far beyond what the doctors and peers had thought possible. I play guitar for a living, it's all I know, except being a father. The doctors have concluded this; The exercise I gave my arm and hand from playing guitar, drums, and piano, saved my arm and rapidly increased the healing process. My arm will never be "normal" but I have it at least. What is the old saying? "When life hands you lemons, call someone to come over with a bottle of tequilla."hahaha

As you well know, all persons' ability to heal and withstand pain are different. So for me personally I play a minimum of 4 hours every single day, more often than not a lot more than 4 hours. Sure I have arthritis and physical pain but I can tolerate it and deal with it. It's a small price to pay for the pure happiness and elation it brings to my family and our lives. YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE!!!! So live, play guitar, be happy, then rest the final rest with a soul full of music!!

Great topic Leiven, your hard work and research in this field is greatly appreciated.

Peace and Guitars,
SouthPaw41L(Toney)

Give everything but up.

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

Badeye, I know that some "diseases", better medical problems are "recognised" as caused by work.
There are a few examples.
IT always occurs, in 90% of the "cases" by repetitive movements. A painter will suffer more in the shoulder and develop arthrosis, and/or rotator cuff problems. It starts with very little defects in a tendon, if you continue it gets worse. But if it is your profession, if you are working independent, no boss, the more you work, the more you earn, it isn't funny. I was busy to destroy the remaining good part of my body, when I started again in 2001, resulting in a STOP in 2004. People in the construction business, like to work on a floor, KNEE problems. Sportsmen, classical problem later.
Computer: this is now recognised as causing problems, hand, neck, shoulder.
In fact every occupation or profession where you use the same "repetitive" movements, will cause in 80% problems. So the guitar too. And when playing guitar, as a professional, is often not noticed, and neglected. This was a kind of message that I wanted to write.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

hi phil i thought i was suffering till i read these posts ,i have hand/arm vibration white finger and had both carpel tunnel opps ,i'm in pain 24/7 but my problems are minor compared to some of you ,you're an inspiration to us all ...stay cool

love is life ,life is for love,keep a true heart and live life to the full....stay cool

11 (edited by Guitarpix 2007-10-29 20:14:13)

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

Hey Doc!  Hope all has been going well for ya! Your right this is an important topic! Everyone needs to be aware of the possible long term affects of what they do. It's funny you mentioned painter..That's my profession and I'm self employed also so I can relate to Your post. I never really thought about the consequences of playing guitar long term. I think this is were it's important to know proper posture while playing...Let me veer just a moment....I always considered myself self taught but I did take 4 lessons with a well trained classical guitarist. I took these not to learn music but to learn the proper posture for playing. The right way to hold the guitar and yourself as well. Here's just a couple of tips that anyone can use in their practise. I always use a foot stool for playing...This allows the guitar to rest at a natural angle and you don't feel like you have to lean over it or hug it to play. Which in return helps you sit straighter improving your posture and lessens the strain on your back, neck and arms. A good foot stool for playing guitar can be picked up at any music store for under $20. Also, this is going to sound odd but practise in the dark! Not all the time of course...lol but occasionally. This helps to break the bad habit of always watching your hands which causes you to always either try to lean over the guitar or pull it back at an angle for you to see, which will effect your strumming. You'll be really surprised at how much this helps your chord changing! Proper thumb positioning on the back of the neck can help tremendously with hand fatigue and it really does help with your reach once you get used to it.  Practise making chords by just pushing hard enough on the strings for it to ring true..Alot of guitarist try to push the strings much too hard and not only is this bad for your hands but it kills your frets!  Anyway, I've just been sitting here rambling on haven't I?...lol Hope at least some of that was helpful to someone...lol Peace!

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

Hey Doc,
That was very interesting.... Very long too! big_smile
I haven't suffered any major injuries from instrumentally related accidents. Just things like callouses on my left hand, and two bleeding fingernails on my right from guitar. I did though, fall down a flight of stairs because of my saxophone. I was talking to my friends outside my classroom, at the top of the stairs. My saxophone case alone is about five kilograms plus the saxophone would of been about two kilos more. I dropped the saxophone on my foot, fell forwards down the stairs and landed on the case which resulted in a minorly twisted ankle and a bruise on my stomach.
That just proves how clumsy I am though.

Jikklop

The Irish gave the bagpipes to the Scots as a joke, but the Scots haven't got the joke yet.

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

If i spend too much time on my guitar I tend to develop ear-ache. This is not down to my playing (bad as it is) but to my wife constantly nagging me to put the bloody thing away and get the housework done. lol

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

alvee33 get a headset and keep pickin acapo

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

Don't worry, acapo, over 20 years of togetherness (man and boy) have taught me how to perfect the ancient art of ignoring the Mrs.

lol smile

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

alvee33 wrote:

If i spend too much time on my guitar I tend to develop ear-ache. This is not down to my playing (bad as it is) but to my wife constantly nagging me to put the bloody thing away and get the housework done. lol

lol lol

must be the water in Scotland Al. I was coming in here to type the same thing. Only difference is my wife does not want me to do the housework, she just wants me to shut up lol

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: MEDICAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY PLAING MUSIC

lol

It's no the water, Ken, it's the wimin!

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??