Topic: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

lol

This topic was from what headcase said in another thread.
He said some think Garth killed old time country, and he may well have done so. I have no idea!!
so I am asking the country fans what you think.

I think and believe that nothing lasts forever, sad I know but I believe this to be true even in music.

Maybe the grand ol oprey knew this and made garth a lifetime member because either they knew he was  going to be popular forever, wanted him to be popular forever or they are going with the flow at the time.

I like a couple of his songs ( to be honest, I ahve probably only heard a few, the ones that have entered the british charts and got airplay on some terrible radio station like BBC)
But I do not know enough about him or his music or the country scene to comment anymore.

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Ken

Garth was the "bridge" between "old" country and the new wave of country ... I was never big into the older stuff ... My uncle was big into Merle Haggard, Kenny Rogers, Willie Nelson, etc ... I liked Alabama and that was about it ... Garth came around in the late 80's and had a different sound ... not the classic old country sound ... I dug it ... then a whole new genre of country singes started to emerge ... and the sound expanded to include "rock" progressions, etc ... not just steal guitars, acoustics and fiddles

IMO Garth brought the next generation sound of country to another level ... I like it alot more today since it's more "modernized" than I did back then ... however one thing never changes, and that is George Strait ... same style since the 70's, etc ... I LOVE George Strait ... he has a way of making classic country sound modern without being classic if that makes sense!

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Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

This is my feelings - There is NO More couintry music, today. What you have is country rock, country blues and country crap (sorry rap). Now there is a place for this music and if this is what you like - great. Me, I like the old stuff - it tells a story, it's about love, family, cheatin', honky-tonkin'. trucks, women, girls and ladies, good times and bad,  - but always a story. Old time country music had HEART because the musicans wrote about life experiences (mostly their own) You can say the same thing about the OLD TIME rock and roll music. Todays music just does not compare to what was wrote in the 40's, 50's and 60's. Did Garth Brooke kill country music - me, I don't know - but he did help it get to a fork in the road and take a direction away from what COUNTRY music should be.


Nela

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

I think its possible that most of the old country stars are dead or near it and music being what is is it morphed into several new forms that incorporate rock blues ect..

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

NELA I agree ... there are a few artists that I love because they do still write about life, love, sadness, etc ... Kenny Chesney has ALOT of songs that deal with growing up, losing loved ones, living life, finding/losing love, children growing up ... I guess that's why I connect with alot of his music ...

Alot of his songs I can't get through singing all the way because Im constantly thinking of points in my life that the songs remind me of and I get choked up and can't keep going

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Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

I don't really think that Garth killed old time country. First, country was already heading that direction before he burst on the scene. Plus, I think every genre of music has an artist or two that are original and sound different than everyone else (and then everyone else tries to emulate those artists). Garth was one of those artists for country music. Garth's first album was pretty traditional and it did pretty well. "No Fences" was radically different and they couldn't burn CD's fast enough. Garth realized what worked and kept it going in following albums. He's no different than "old" country stars who played what people wanted to listen to. I didn't really like country that much before Garth, and I've lost interest in country after Garth. But through Garth, I learned to appreciate artists like George Jones, Hank Williams, George Strait, etc. etc. Did Garth help change country? Absolutely. But he also helped put country on the map.

"Do or do not, there is no try." Yoda

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Killed Old Time Country? How about the old time country player's died? That said, Johnny Cash's latest albums were some of his best sellers ever. Willie is still going strong - I saw him a couple of years ago, brought tears to my eyes seeing an American Icon. Music evolves, always has, always will - Garth & Shania  brought worldwide popularity to country music that had never been seen before. Nothing wrong with that at all. I'm not a country fan (the wife is), but I gotta agree with Tim -  Chesney, Urban, Toby - there's still plenty of trains, pickups, bars and mommas in country today.

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!

8 (edited by mixter102 2008-07-21 00:39:02)

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Old Time Country is being played by new Groups like Old Crow Medicine show or the Mother Truckers.  It is Commonly called Alt Country or Americana. 

When Garth and Shania first came out country radio didn't think they were country enough to play,  After they became big every other act out there copied them.

Now Americana is considered too old fashoned for country radio.

The music business isn't going to mess with what works,  If an Old Time Country act breaks,  they will start playing it again.

On a side note it's kind of ironic that Johnny Cash won't be played on Country radio, but will be played on Alternative Radio.

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Tim0473 wrote:

NELA I agree ... there are a few artists that I love because they do still write about life, love, sadness, etc ... Kenny Chesney has ALOT of songs that deal with growing up, losing loved ones, living life, finding/losing love, children growing up ... I guess that's why I connect with alot of his music ...

Alot of his songs I can't get through singing all the way because Im constantly thinking of points in my life that the songs remind me of and I get choked up and can't keep going

Kenny Chesney is a poser. He acts like he's playing his $8,000.00 custom delux Martin and when the camera pans away his guitar isn't even plugged in or mic'd. He buys songs from starving artists' and calls them his own creations.

Please do not mention this clown in the same breath as Johnny Cash or Willie Nelson, it hurts my spine and makes me wanna go and break something.

Give everything but up.

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Well that depends on what exactly you would call 'Old Country Music'. Country's a term penned to wide range of styles than its given credit for,  and in any given year there were good and terrible artists on both ends of the spectrum. The great thing about country to me is the different styles that you find within it, the melding of old and new sounds. Hank Williams learned to play from a blues man, Bob Wills used swing with his country, and in texas you find the latin licks and irish drinking songs melding into western ballads, the bakersfield sound in CA with its electric hot licks, the bluegrassy roy acuff classics, to eddy arnolds orchestras; its not melding styles thats ruining country music, its the lack of musical talent.
  Guys like Garth, love em or hate em, DID at least make thier way because of thier music. Even if they did front a movement within country from time to time, they didn't make or break the genre.  You can blame this new image driven mainstream crap on the MTV, (yes they messed witht he country too. CMT is the powerhouse in the country music industry and is owned by the MTV), more than any single artists. Thier front men though are guys like Billy Ray or these other one hit wonder pretty boys stinkin up the airwaves. Again I had to jump on my soapbox, which is compromising sound for marketable image.

All You Need is Love smile

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

I think it's a mistake to group all of them under a single moniker like "country".  I wouldn't expect Garth Brooks to sound like Tommy Horton or Shania to sound like Tammy Wynette.  They have their style of music, whatever it may be labeled as, and you can take it or leave it.  Garth made some big bucks on what he did, so there's no reason for him to believe that what he was doing wasn't worthwhile.  I don't really care for a lot of the music that's coming out right now and making the charts in the rock/pop/whatever arena, but then again my parents didn't like what I used to listen to.  I could be mistaken, but the most recent remnant of older style country music that I can think of is Randy Travis and I haven't a clue which corner of the earth he fell off of.  If you re-introduced Merle, it probably wouldn't be a commercial success and that's a lot of what drives the industry.  It changes.  Garth didn't kill anything.  He gave birth to a new style.  Nothing wrong with that in my mind.

12 (edited by Zurf 2008-07-21 13:09:06)

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Nope.

And old time country wasn't as good as folks want to remember.  For every Hag, Cash, Willie Nelson, and Waylon there are tons of folks who just whined into a mic and had a boom-chicka-boom sound behind them.  Those folks are forgotten while the true stars' music continues to shine.  I grew up listening to that old style Country, and it was awful.  I still like the Hag, and Johnny Cash and the others mentioned.  But there's a whole bunch of stars from the 60's, 70's and early 80's of Country that I'll be just fine if I never hear their music again.

In an interview with George Jones on this very topic, Mr. Jones said that there has ALWAYS been a lot of poor music written and performed.  In the old days when folks didn't have as much money to spend on music, those weaker songs were thrown in the trash where they belonged and only the creme of the crop made it to albums.  He said this was true of himself, and also most of the "stars" of yesteryear.  Nowadays, folks are willing to spend the money to buy an album with only one or two good songs on it so they pump out albums with 80% garbage.  It's not that there's more garbage now than there was then, it's that people are more willing to pay for garbage. 

It wasn't Garth Brooks that killed old time country.  If it didn't sell, it wouldn't be produced.

As far as the Americana/Alt Country comment by Mixter102 - I am in complete agreement.  That sound is still out there.  I like a band from Ohio called Hillbilly Idol.  Their motto is "It isn't your grandfather's Country, but he'd probably approve."  They are so interested in maintaining a traditional country sound that they all play instruments from the 1950s and to a fair degree use mics and amps from that era when in the studio.  And Hillbilly Idol isn't the only ones.  CD Baby is replete with good "old country" bands.  Truckstop Troubadours,

Shania.  Pfffffffft.  Nice to look at anyway. 

Randy Travis is still making great music.  He's got an overt Christian theme to a lot of his music now, but that's nothing unusual for Country.  He's cut a few albums that are straight Christian music, and then a few albums that are Country but are thematically consistant with a Christian belief.  Some excellent recent tunes from Randy Travis are "Right on Time", "Three Wooden Crosses" (which won CMA song of the year a few years ago), and "Running Blind."  I highly recommend his album "Passing Through."  It doesn't get airtime because of the theme of the music, I expect, but the music itself is top notch. 

Alan Jackson.  George Straight.  A couple more folks you'd be hard-pressed to say don't perform music in the tradition of Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash and George Jones and the superstars of "old" Country. 

If you want a recent star that's dead-ahead-straight-on-Country with no surprises and excellent delivery, check out Josh Turner.  Listen to him and  tell me old time Country is dead. 

Garth Brooks is just Garth Brooks.  He is to Country what G'n'R is to rock.  Big stadium shows, a few honestly good songs and a lot of songs that just sound like they ought to be good but aren't really, and very good at marketing and merchandising.   Nothing wrong with good showmanship.  But from my perspective, that's what Garth brought to Country.  Showmanship.  Exquisitly planned and perfectly executed showmanship designed to elicit excitement.  Good for him for making a danged good living at something he can do well.  That, and "I've Got Friends In Low Places" is a great song. 

- Zurf

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Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Ok, let's try this from a different direction. Did the music die all on it's own of did the producers kill it. A lotta music (and musicans) have been kick into the ditch simply because the producers did not want to sell that style of music. Toby Kieth and Clint Black, although not exactly OLD TIME musicans, they were very popular until they weren't allowed to do THEIR music as thay wanted too and were blacklisted by MUSIC CITY. If you go to the honky-tonks located most anywhere across the south / west you will see the parking lots filled with vehicles of people who like the old time music. If it wasn't good how come Ray Price is still doing sell out shows at 83 years old? I'm not saying the new country music is bad, I'm saying that it's hust not what country music is about. To me DISCO ruined EVERYTHING!


Nela

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

I am glad I started this thread it has been a great read to get lots of opinions, some agreeing in some sort of way, other disagreeing and saying why. A true debate!!! One that has not led to moaning and griping etc.

But now I have read a lot and loved reading all responses so far and hope to read more, I am agreeing with the last post from NELA.
I think it would have been the record producers!! They dictate what is in the charts and when.
So I dont think we can blame poor wee garth ( or mega rich garth) for killing off anything.

But if more people have more opinions then please keep them coming. As I said when I started this I dont know much about garth  and I know little of Country music as a genre, but I do like quite a few country singers/bands, mostly old ones. So it is good to read all this.




Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Well upyerkilt, you have started some thing with this one. First let me say that I personaly did not say Garth Brooks killed country.  I think it has more to do with the Record Companies,
they will only release what they think will sell, if someone comes along and sells a Gazillion
CD's and decides to call himself A Country Singer that's fine by the record guys.
As I said in my massage Merle Haggard, produced what to the critics was a great CD, he still had to self release it through Cracker Barrel Resturants, Who Just as it happens Sponser the
Grand ole Opray.  As a big Hag fan the only why I can get a copy is when I am in America next week.  I think The Grand Ole Opray need to pull their heads out of the sand and help support those singers who want to make country music the Tradionial way.  or it might find its- self on the Old Landmark Tours.  I have a few other things to point out but I will post them in the very near future.
Luck to all. !!!

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

sorry headcase, I didnt mean to imply you actually said it was him personally. I read what you typed and then had to remember ( instead of copy and pasting)

but what a great thread eh?

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

SouthPaw41L wrote:
Tim0473 wrote:

NELA I agree ... there are a few artists that I love because they do still write about life, love, sadness, etc ... Kenny Chesney has ALOT of songs that deal with growing up, losing loved ones, living life, finding/losing love, children growing up ... I guess that's why I connect with alot of his music ...

Alot of his songs I can't get through singing all the way because Im constantly thinking of points in my life that the songs remind me of and I get choked up and can't keep going

Kenny Chesney is a poser. He acts like he's playing his $8,000.00 custom delux Martin and when the camera pans away his guitar isn't even plugged in or mic'd. He buys songs from starving artists' and calls them his own creations.

Please do not mention this clown in the same breath as Johnny Cash or Willie Nelson, it hurts my spine and makes me wanna go and break something.

I should have clarified more on Kenny ... the songs he chooses mean a lot to me ... I know the majority of todays artists get their songs from writers and they do write excuisite songs ... but it takes the right artist to bring it to light ... but I do agree that Kenny brings showmanship to a show ... whether or not he actually plays or not doesnt concern me ... it's what songs he chooses to sing and whether or not I like them ... I love the music for what it is ... not if penned it, wrote it, or stole it

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Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

I am of the age that can remember not having a tv and having to listen to radio at night for entertainment. Back then there was only 1 kinda music - COUNTRY. Then came, Jerry Lee, Elvis, Carl Perking, Buddy Holly and yes Johnny Cash. Rock N Roll. To me thats the 2 type's of music that counts - old time Rock n Roll and ole time Country. (Make it 3 types as I forgot the ole time Blues)This is music you can listen to and enjoy. I've never understood Metal, Disco, Grunge, Heavy Metal, or Rap. But that's just me and if you like it - I'm ok with that. I want music I can enjoy and relate to. It could be because that was ingrained in me at an early age but that is what I like. Yesterday's music will never be able to thrive in today's world. The producers only want what they think will sell regardless of what the artist want to put out for the public. Today's producers can make or break an artist simply by putting out their records. The producers work together on this and once the word is out a artist does not have a chance. If the named producers won't produce the artist the radio stations will not play them. The music industry is not about the music anymore - it's about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Nela

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

NELA wrote:

I want music I can enjoy and relate to...

The music industry is not about the music anymore - it's about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Nela

I agree that the music business is all about the money now, and that's sad. But we're all the same in that we buy music that we like, and we all like different music. i.e. I just bought a Flyleaf album which you probably wouldn't like but I think the group has real talent. Neither of us would go out and buy some crap where an idiot is bragging about riding his bike with no handle bars. So, yes, producers are trying to produce music that will sell and sometimes they find something totally out of the ordinary that they take a chance on, like a Garth Brooks or Nirvana. There's still real music out there where it's still about the art (which I think was the case for Nirvana their whole career and Garth at the beginning)...we just gotta dig a little deeper to find it.

"Do or do not, there is no try." Yoda

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

who cares about country music anyway??????

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Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

There are many different types of country music.
No Garth didn't kill old country.
Country, today, is a show piece. There are many country music preformers that can neither read nor write music. They sing other people's music. A lot of what is going on is someone will cut a demo of how a song should go then the name will kareoke to it to learn it and later preform it.
Country has become an image issue.
Country is money, it's getting away from emotion.

If you're not happy with what you have...
Then you'll never be happy with what you get...

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Garth Brooks probably did not kill country music, but maybe he did play a role in that along with others. He is a showman, a poser. Even though it has been said that he has sold more records than the Beatles or Elvis, he is a flash-in-the-pan and 10 years from now no one will remember him.  I think he used to have a thing in his concerts where he would smash an acoustic guitar on stage. That is theatrics, and has nothing to do with music and is stupid. Just like the Who used to do.

Elvis had his theatrics too, but he is remembered, and for many years beyond his death. Garth will not be a lasting memory. This all just shows you how gullible people are and will buy anything that is called top 10 or top 40 music, regardless of the qual.  Garth had his run of fame, is now very wealthy I assume, and that is that.

Maybe I am being a little unfair in my comments about Garth, because obviously a lot of people like him.  I just don't think that his music will have that lasting quality that much of the old time country music had.  I guess only time will be the test of that.  Sorry if I hurt any Garth fans with my comments.

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

I expect Mr. Brook's accountants will still remember him in a decade.  Every time they fire up their Jaguar XKE's. 

I'm getting a little concerned though in that Jim's is the third or so comment that seems to associate being a showman with being a poser.  OK, so Garth didn't write all of his own material.  Neither does Randy Travis.  Neither have a lot of artists.  I'm not sure where this obligation to be singer, player, and song-writer comes from to avoid being a "poser", but I don't like it much. 

As far as being a player, I watch fingers very closely.  There's a lot of singers in rock, country, but mostly not folk who have guitars strapped on their necks as props.  The music is being played by the backup band.  Um, isn't that what a band is for?  To play music? 

Song-writers have got to eat too.  Why cut them out of the music scene just because they don't have good singing voices or prefer not to travel or have stage fright or whatever reason for not getting up on stage or on tour?  There's nothing at all wrong with performing someone else's songs so long as the song-writer gets credit.  The only "stealing" done is when the song-writers don't get proper credit.  Proper, in this case, is well defined by Copyright laws and music industry union regulations and conventions. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

A couple of points:

Zurf I agree as well ... the song-writers are just that, song writers, they write songs for the purpose of artists picking their songs to record, etc ... that's what they want to do, write songs ... someone has to do it and like you said, as long as the artist gives them credit then it's good-to-go in my book

NELA ... I agree what your saying about the producers, etc controlling too much of the artists ... which is one of the reasons why bands (using this example specifically) cheered when RadioHead gave away their newest CD release for free online ... the record company's were not happy at all where as other artists and bands lauded them for breaking away from the company's that were controlling everything ... one article I read on the subject as well showed that the bands weren't losing money by people downloading the free music ... sales actually went up for the CD's themselves

Jim ... I'd agree with you as far as Garth being a showman ... I'm not big on the "poser" theory ... artists are there for your entertainment ... if they smash guitars, etc it's a show for the fans ... case in point is Kiss in the 70's ... they put on HUGE theatrics in their shows ... granted they DID play their guitars, etc but the whole point was to put on a great show for the fans ... if Garth and the Who smash their guitars so be it ... it makes a show a heck of a lot more entertaining to me ... but then again, I'd be perfectly content in watching George Strait play for hours on end because he's fantastic ... if an artist decides he wants to sit on stage with a guitar around his neck and not play, etc  that's his preference ... I don't care if he plays it or not ... one guitar doesn't make the band behind him ... I'm more interested in how great the song (regardless of who wrote it) is, how great the supporting band plays, and if I'm getting my moneys worth out of the show

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Re: Did Garth Brookes KIll old time Country?

Garth puts on a show.

Now, having said that, I don't know if he killed country music (not dead as far as I can tell) but he's probably wanted for questioning in the assault.

Someday we'll win this thing...

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