Topic: Cedar or Spruce??
Which do you prefer,
I personally like a Spruce top.
My father in law prefers Cader.
Just wondering what most you guys prefer and why??
Re: Cedar or Spruce??
Hey Sandman77, and Welcome to Chordie!
Seen that you have been a member awhile, just not particularly vocal, but it is nice to see you posting. Now on to your question....
Tone woods are like people, different and different in subtle ways. For the most part I look for uniform density and fairly tight grain when choosing tone woods for Acoustic instruments..... species is not as important to the sound as one would think. Spruce has been a regular "best" in Lutherie almost since Stradavari carved his first viola, probably because it has a nice resonance throughout the range of tones that strings impart on it. Cedar is OK and very similar to spruce even though it is classified as a "soft" wood. Cedar guitars that I have run into seem to be a little soft in sound also as opposed to the "brighter" sound of Spruce. But I would think that carefully chosen wood could be difficult to discern.
In my opinion, the move off of Spruce has been a result more of the scarcity of good wood stocks domestically (most having been cut off and slow growing species anyway). We are seeing some very good Spruce coming out of Alaska lately, and a lot more Cedar, with some of the "exotics" as tone woods. Composites are up and coming into their own as well, to which I have nothing but good things to say about. It has been difficult to find suitable preferred woods over the past few years, and I fear that it will be a long time before there will be a plentiful supply available for harvest.... so more plentiful woods will be experimented with although there are a lot more rejected than actually used. Only the best get to be made into "fine" instruments, and the rest into furniture.... or shingles.
Just a matter of personal preference I suppose... if it has the sound you like, it's good!
Take Care;
Doug
"what is this quintessence of dust?" - Shakespeare
3 2009-10-10 10:49:41 (edited by Guitarpix 2009-10-10 10:51:38)
- Guitarpix
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Re: Cedar or Spruce??
Nice post Doug.
I couldn't really say which I like best. A soft spruce can sound a lot like cedar and a stiff cedar top can sound a lot like spruce. The final tone of the guitar has more to do with the builder (IMO). Top thickness, bracing, voicing, etc... As Doug said generally cedar is a softer or warmer sounding wood. Spruce is usually brighter but again it all depends on the woods Q (density,stiffness, weight) While some people debate this, It's often thought that tighter grain increases brightness and a top with wider grain spacing will have a bassier tone. It's really imposable for anyone to say "oh a spruce and mahogany guitar will sound like this while a cedar rosewood will sound like that" There are just too many variables and each set of tonewoods has it's own characteristics. -Pix
[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
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Re: Cedar or Spruce??
You guys gave a very in depth facts, cheers guys,
okay one more thing,
I prefer a gloss finish because I hate how a satin finish wears quickly and "polishes" up, what do you guys prefer gloss or satin, and can the finish alter the sound
Re: Cedar or Spruce??
Greetings Sandman77,
On finishes I'm with you, for pretty much the same reasons as you. Almost everything these days is spray applied, and flattening agents are mixed into the finish to get that semi-gloss result (usually something like Oystershell). Nobody in production wants to spend the hours it takes to do a proper hand rubbed finish with shellac or nitrocellulose, so your finish will mostly be sitting on the surface of the wood and not have penetrated too deeply into the pores of the wood. Hand built high-line guitars might be treated to that very special treatment..... but you will have to pay the ferryman to get it.
A gloss finish will get scratches in it which generally can be polished out, satin finishes that get polished can be "scratched" with something like 4/0 steel wool to reduce the shine but eventually you are going to wear through whatever there is that is on the wood and be forced to refinish. Blending a shiny finish is a whole lot easier than blending a satin as you don't have the option of wet sanding and buffing it in.
As to sound....? Yes and yes! The trick is to get enough finish on the wood to protect it and seal without building up enough of a film thickness to dampen the resonance of the wood itself. Traditionally nitrocellulose was used because it penetrated well and along with shellac is fairly stiff when dry, urethanes and acrylics stay pretty flexible and rubbery for a real long time and tend to dampen the wood's ability to vibrate (mostly in the higher frequencies).
Hope that helps.
Take Care;
Doug
"what is this quintessence of dust?" - Shakespeare
- Zurf
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Re: Cedar or Spruce??
I like a guitar that's made with a cedar top, but I don't know if that means I prefer cedar tops or if I just like that particular guitar. I also like some guitars with hardwood rather than softwood tops - like ash and maple - but that doesn't mean that I am always going to look for them. It's really in how the entire guitar comes together and the style you intend to play on it. I think certain guitars lend themselves better to particular styles of music. Soft strummy music like folk might take well to a cedar whereas bright, fast, fingerpick style like bluegrass might take well to a spruce top.
- Zurf
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If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude